The Future Is Here

EP. 2: The Future Of The Church is Brown w/ Robert Chao Romero

May 19, 2020 UYWI Season 1 Episode 2
The Future Is Here
EP. 2: The Future Of The Church is Brown w/ Robert Chao Romero
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The Future Is Here
EP. 2: The Future Of The Church is Brown w/ Robert Chao Romero
May 19, 2020 Season 1 Episode 2
UYWI

In this episode, Tommy Nixon speaks with UCLA Professor, Pastor, and author of “The  Brown Church,” Robert Chao Romero to unravel the multi-ethnic reality of the Kingdom of God and discuss why it is so important to have the WHOLE body of Christ contribute to the Church and Kingdom. This means embracing the beautiful inevitability of the future of the church being brown. 

Support the show (https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E12333&id=12)

Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, Tommy Nixon speaks with UCLA Professor, Pastor, and author of “The  Brown Church,” Robert Chao Romero to unravel the multi-ethnic reality of the Kingdom of God and discuss why it is so important to have the WHOLE body of Christ contribute to the Church and Kingdom. This means embracing the beautiful inevitability of the future of the church being brown. 

Support the show (https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E12333&id=12)

Speaker 1:

Are you listening? Hey fam . Welcome to the features here, podcast . This is for the leaders, the dreamers , provocateurs, misfits , Vista , frustrated frontline leaders who are charging in the kingdom. You're tired of a reactive church. It's time to build a church. We dream of now. The future is here, so don't get left behind. Are you listening? Let's get into it.

Speaker 2:

I am the Brown church. God calls me Mihai. Michael Brown , black, white, even yellow are all within me. When black and white come to talk, my voice is not heard and not invited to the table. I share much with my black sisters and brothers, yet my voices distinct I lawn . I cry out to be heard for who I am. The Brown church. Your sway Montesinos gritando in 1511 the conquest as opposed to Christ. [inaudible] his eyes like Moses were open to the suffering of his people and never looked back. Your soy sauce . Juana in Estella Cruz . My heart burns for the treasures of wisdom which are hidden in Christ though much cheers, more sales me own guest. I'm lucky . Other Camino, I do not relent. Your [inaudible] . My poblano stolen from Asia, enslaved by Spanish masters. I find freedom as the bride of Christ. I to hold the keys of the kingdom. You'll sleep father Antonio Martinez. Then when we may , I won't get robota in our salon. I know no nation holds a manifest destiny to decimate that people have another also beloved of God in the time of Jim Crow and they called me wetback beaner spick and sent me to Mexican schools. Yet I amended that . Now that all is Kairos. My children are not cows. We cannot place them in a barn. You'll say mama Layo is Santos Elizondo who Harris forged in tongues of fire. Nadia [inaudible] in a speedy to those in yours . It starts over me. I am the loaner sweater and Sentara Chavez. I was raised in the bosom of I believe that theology and know that the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of God.

Speaker 1:

What's up family? Welcome to another episode of the futures here. Podcast. I'm your host Tommy Nixon. I'm excited for today's episode. We are calling it the church of the future is Brown. And I've got my man here, dr Robert Chao Romero. Uh , welcome brother. Thank you so much for being on. I'm so, I'm so thankful man, that we're going to get suspend some time with you now. Doctor , uh, Robert shower marrow , actually it's Reverend dr right ? Is that, is that right? That's right. Reverend dr man . Um, and what I, and what I love about , uh, Robert man is he lives in all these spaces. He's actually , um, a professor at UCLA. Um , he's also, I just found this out brother. You're an attorney as well, is that right? Yes, that's right. Okay, cool. So if , uh, if you're listening and you get in trouble , um, you know , we got somebody to represent you in court, but um, but yeah, and so he's , uh , he's written over 15 books, right? Is that, how many books have you read? Books and articles, books and articles over 15. Um, and actually you have another book coming out, which we're going to be talking about today. Um, and so that's coming out a little bit later. It's later in may, may I think 28 or 26 .

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, that's right. But then [inaudible]

Speaker 1:

yeah, man. So , um , at the end of , of the month in may. So we're really excited about that. And so let me set up , um, our conversation for today , uh, with Dr. Romero here. And so , um, we're going to be talking about the future of the church is Brown. Now what we mean by that, what I mean by that is we've been talking a lot about the future is here and we believe that the future is young. It's urban, it's multiethnic. And so when we say Brown , uh , what we're really talking about is it's a , it's a mixture that the kingdom of God is , is multiethnic, multifaceted. It's from a large , um , and different parts of the body of Christ. And, and really it's so important that the church of the future that churches start to receive and welcomed the gifts of all the other parts of the body of Christ. Now we know how to vet divisive. Uh, the church can be sometimes , um, that, that it's, you know, the famous quote that Sunday morning is the most segregated hour of the week. Um, and we need to fight against that and we need to see a different type of church kind of rise out. And so what I love about , um, even this conversation with you, Robert, is , um, you're actually mixed, right? And so, and , and what are you mixed with?

Speaker 3:

So my dad is an immigrant from Mexico, from Chihuahua, Mexico, and my mom, an immigrant from China who made

Speaker 1:

Providence from Bay . Wow, man, that's awesome. And so, and then even in my background, I'm a , I'm a quarter Filipino. Um, and then, you know, all types of European, obviously you could see that. So , um, but , uh, but , um, as we look at this, the multiethnic reality isn't something that , um, you know, some progress, some progressive movement came up with. And I want to make sure our people understand that this is not something that is , uh , we just came up with. In fact, we know from Genesis 22 Abrahamic covenant, right? Reverend, like, make sure that my theology is right on this, right. Genesis 22 , uh , the Abrahamic covenant, it's saying that all nations will be blessed through Abraham. And then you see that continued on , uh , acts two , uh , the day of Pentecost. You have all these different ethnicities and cultures coming together. They're , they're coming into, but God is calling them to into his kingdom. And then we see in revelation that you also have that all tribes, you know, all nations will, will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and we want to see, and I know your heart for evangelism, that people will come to know Jesus. That's what I want to see. And, and being, you know, wanting to be a missionary growing up and trying to figure all that out and all the, the conflict with even within that conversation, but just wanting to see people's , uh, like worship God in their language and their culture to contextualize that. And I think that's so glorifying to God. And so we really want to see that the future of the church looks like that. No , I'm not advocating. And , and I know you would agree with this to Robert, that , um, that it's, that all churches need to be multiethnic. I actually don't believe that. Um, uh , but , um, but I think we're missing out when we don't receive the gift of learning and humbling ourselves to other parts of the body of Christ. And so when we talk about the Brown church, we're really saying that there's a gift there that the larger church in the United States, which is primarily has been , uh , driven, at least the power structure of that has kind of been a white institutional , uh, even suburban kind of church. You know, the success metrics and the models that all, you know, even the, the, the, the Christian industry, the evangelical industry is kind of, that's the structure of it. And it hasn't really received the gift of what we're talking about today with the Brown shirts. And so, man, I, I'm so glad that you're here brother. So I'm going to stop talking because I just want to know. All right . So , um, gut what you have to say and what you've written. This book, it's called the Brown church. And , um, and so can you kind of give us a , a framework for what that means and, and, and what you think , uh, the church, how, how can the church of the future be shaped and, and be better , um, with receiving the gift of what you're calling the Brown church

Speaker 3:

for sure. And again, it's an honor to be here. Thank you so much. Um , I want to first start off by saying like, my world intersects with the UI, WWI world. Um, but later in the pipeline. So imagine like your top students right at your local youth center. And my wife was an urban youth worker for many years as well. But imagine like your , your top students that make it into UCLA, they make it into USC or kimono college or something. And this is often what happens. I'm gonna tell this story. It's actually a true story. Uh , and I'll call her Anna to protect her identity. But atta was, I was a top student, grew up in an urban youth ministry leader of a youth group. Went on scholarship to this fancy college liberal arts college. And when she got there she started hearing her professors saying, you can't be Christian and care about issues of justice. Christians are the ones that that genocided native Americans that did slavery and they did all these horrible things. You can't be a Christian and care about issues of justice and race. Now even though Anna had been mentored by a top, and I'll say this too, like you know urban youth worker who's totally woke and totally everything that sensor into this like just spiral. And she's like, where do I fit? Where do I belong? She'd say on the one hand, you know when I go to my activist circles and these classes and they're telling me that Christianity is against issues of justice, but then when I go to spaces that are more formal Christian spaces, a lot of times on my , I might hear that the gospel doesn't have anything to do with that. So people like Anna are in these borderlands space cut in between. Right. And , um, when I met Anna , she was actually going through a clinical depression about two years into college and even taking medication because she was, didn't know how to process this, this difficult dilemma. And , um , I think one way, well, first of all, it's very important for urban youth workers to kind of like if I might say this right , um, prepare their students for that experience. I guess pair that. And um, another way of framing this is that when Anna got to college, she didn't see the importance of faith of Christian faith. And in, in perhaps some of the Christian circles that she swam and she didn't see the importance of her Latino culture highlighted. Um , one of my favorite passages of the Bible is a revelation chapter 21 verses 26 through 27, revelation 2126 through 27. And in that passage, John is describing the new Jerusalem. So we've read this, you know, a lot of times before, but not seeing the language in rep in 26 and 27. The language there. John says that the glory and honor of the nations, the glory and honor of the nations will be brought into the new Jerusalem. But nothing that causes sin will be brought in. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought in, but nothing that causes sin. And I'm paraphrasing there, the word glory there can be translated treasure and wealth, treasure and wealth. The way that I understand that passage in terms of when later of its meaning is that the cultural treasure and wealth of the different ethnic groups of the world will be brought into the new Jerusalem forever. God cares so much about the different ethnic, cultural treasure in the world that it's going to last forever. And what Steve is like Anna miss with a lot of times when they go to church is they don't see their own Laurie and honor represented in the church, their own cultural wealth represented in the church. Um, and that, that creates a lot of this problem that we're talking about.

Speaker 1:

If you like what you're hearing, keep listening, but also make sure to check out our newest leadership resource, the leadership journey by hitting up our website, a UI, wwi.org brother. I love your story about Anna . Um, my first year of college, I actually went to Pasadena city college my first year, and I just want to be, I wanted to go around the world, I want to be a missionary, but all my professors, almost all my professors, my first year were Marxists and they were the, to be honest, they were the best professors I've ever had. Like they were phenomenal. And it was, it wasn't the church that taught me about justice. It was them. But what was interesting is that I had grown up and I had seen miracles, like, you know, you know, not, we didn't have any money. There was some really tough times and God and God, like miraculous stuff, man, I saw it. So I was like, I was in that same space as Anna was. You know, where I'm like, okay, I'm hearing all this stuff and I am like, I'm all about it. I'm like, yes, you know, just my spirit goes, do justice. And so going all these rallies and I'm learning all this stuff, but I remember being in a post-colonial literature class. Okay, imagine this. So a 18 year old Tommy, okay, 18, 19 year old Tommy post-colonial literature class and I feel everybody in the class, I want to be a missionary. And they, and, and people were like, you have got to be out of your mind. Like what? And so they're arguing with me and I'm trying to, you know , go back and forth and just, and I remember a sister and I forget what , what country she was from, but she was from an African country and I really appreciate it. She pulled me aside after class and she said, Hey, I just, I'm worried about you. What are you thinking? And here's what, here's what missionaries have done in my country. And then I was able to explain to her how I viewed it. And after that conversation she said, okay, if that's what you mean by that, then , um, then, okay , sounds good. But I had to really wrestle through that. And here's where for all of you leaders out there that are, that are wrestling with this, here's why this is so important is because you have a million plus young people leaving the church every year. And the reason they're leaving is because they don't see , they're not buying into the authentic life. They, they've not, they don't buy into the life that were , that , that, that they see us living. And a huge part of that is they can't reconcile what's going on with the world, with what we say, where our beliefs are. And so Rob , Robert, I think what you're talking about and helping people walk that space, right? And you call it the borderlands, right? Um, is a , is extremely important to reach this next generation man. And so, okay, so then you're , so you write this book, tell us a little bit more about what's that gift then like when we talk about the Brown church and if and if these things are going to be so important that God , uh, through the scripture you shared in revelation that that's going to be the treasure that continues on into eternity. Tell us a little bit about what, what, what are we missing right now as the body of Christ that we should open our eyes to in regards to the Brown church ? And maybe even explain like what do you mean when you say the Brown church? Sure .

Speaker 3:

I'm going to use a different example now and then get to my point in community development, a lot of people have heard about asset based community development, right? Asset based as opposed to deficit thinking, right? Asset based versus deficit thinking. So it's like the idea behind that is like we should see the strengths of a community and leverage those strengths to bring about development, right? And so that's a popular model and that's a , that's a great model. But that same approach is not oftentimes taken in our churches, in our different Christian institutions. And let me say what I mean. A lot of times our churches or different institutions are based upon a deficit model. And the model is, okay, let's, you know, we want people to know Jesus, but once they come into the door, if they're people of color, they have to leave their cultural assets outside, right ? And , and for them to come to a particular church or a particular space, in essence, we tell them, you have to, you have to become a middle class majority culture person when in reality they bring so much God-given cultural treasure and wealth and perseverance and, and just wonderful cultural treasure. And so , um , what I'm saying about the Brown church is that there's a 500 year history, 500 years of history in Latin America and amongst us, Latinos of journeying with God through things like colonization and slavery and Jim Crow, segregation and deportations of families, right? Where we have followed Jesus with our hearts. We have followed Jesus by centering on his word. And we have followed Jesus by using, leveraging our community, cultural wealth, our glory and honor to fight of the worst injustices. You know, we can see that we've ever seen. And for five years , and for 500 years we've been doing that. So there's 500 years of Latin American and us Latino, Latino community, cultural wealth, Laurie and honor that is there, that can help the church move on, continue to grow so that we all grow into maturity, into the fullness of the body of Christ.

Speaker 1:

That's so good, man. So how, what is, I mean, what does it look like for, I mean, even we're talking about the features here and a lot of this is we want to be forward thinking, future thinking. When we think about now , what , what kind of church in the United States do we want to see? And so with what there's a, there's a 500 year legacy here. Um, and , and one of the ways I look, even as a pastor, I, and I look at people as gifts. If they're made in the image of God, then they're a gift. And , and for a gift to be a gift, they have to be received, right? You, you can't, you can't just stand there and be like, I got you something and I just go, nah , I'm good. Well then it's not a gift that , and there's a gift. There's a 500 years of, of, of experience and suffering and depth with God and there's all this out there that that needs to be received. What does that look like, do you think for the, for the church to , um , by and large receive that? And what does that look for, for like our leaders? Cause I, I think a lot of our leaders watching this are going to be like, yeah, yes, exactly. And I, but how do I, how do I continue to be that gift? How do I, how do I share that? And then for those who are, maybe this is new for them or they're going like, Oh man, I didn't even think about that. How can they receive that? Can , can you speak into that at all?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for sure. So I'll give, I'll give a couple of examples. One, like a theological example and then one , a practical example, a theological example. Um , part of the glory and honor of the nations in my view is first you have the glory and honor is like the tangible parts of culture, right? You know , the food, the music, the art, all those kinds of things, right? And I think we can Intuit that, that level of the glory and honor of the nations pretty easily. That's why we traveled . That's why we watch whatever channel. And that's all we do, all these things, right ? But the second part is less obvious. And I think this is , but it's , it's, it's just as critical or even more because of our, through or through the lens of our God, given community control, wealth, we can, we can see the world differently and we play a distinct role in the body of Christ. When we look at scripture inspired word of God, that the cultural lens that God gives us allows us to have distinct insights, right? And we need all those insights to fully flourish as the body of Christ. Let me give an example from Latino theology. So is there is this field of Latino, Latino theology over the last 40 years. It's indigenous Latino theologizing from the Latino community cultural wealth context. And one of the notions in , in Latino theology is , is the idea of Galilee. Galilee, right? So we read it. We read in scripture that Jesus, when God became flesh, Jesus came to walk and live as a Galilean, to live most of his life in Galilee, to do most of his ministry in Galilee, to pick his leaders of his movement that would change the world from Galilee. And Latino theologians thought about that and they said, what's the deal with Galilee? And it turns out that what they say is Galilee was the hood of Jesus's day . Galilee was the hood. Galilee was far from the center of power in Jerusalem, far from economic, political, religious authority. It was being exploited by the Romans who were , who were overtaxing them, colonizing them, taking away their culture and their language. It was , um, there were poor because many of them lost their lands through these oppressive taxes of different types. Galileans were , were multicultural. They lived in the borderlands, they spoke Greek, they spoke Aramaic, they spoke Hebrew. Some probably knew some Latin, they spoke with an accent so that when someone from Galilee went to Jerusalem, that's why they could say, dude , you're from Galilee. Right? And so deli was like the hood of a state for that matter. Deli is the most poorest, marginalized, white, rural community of Idaho. That's also Galilee, right? So Galilee is a metaphor for these displaces that are forgotten by the world. And so when God came in human flesh to walk among us to transform the world through his kingdom, he chose to be a Galilean. And so Latino theologians, to go back to your question from the, from the wealth of the cultural context, they framed the Galilee principle. This is the Galilee principle. Those that human beings reject. God calls his very own man. Those the human beings reject. God calls us very young, right? And that was a very authentic sort of insight into , into who God is that flowed from the Brown church , from segregation, from suffering, from pastoring small little congregations in Texas. Right? Um, so that's , that's a theological example. I'll give you a practical example. Um, there was a , a big national campaign to stop the deportation of pestered . No way . Koreans, maybe you heard about that, right? I totally remember that. Yeah. I had the privilege of being part of that. Pastor [inaudible] was , uh , wasn't, isn't assemblies of God. Pastor, he was kidnapped as a child soldier in central America during the eighties, fled to the U S as a child refugee. He's married to a us citizen, wife has two U S citizen kids and he was going to get deported. He has no criminal record, right? And the Brown church came around flowing from our distinct God-given , cultural treasure and wealth, right in partnership with the larger body of Christ because every ethnic group has Gloria and honor , right? And we launched this campaign flowing from that history, the history of, of, of efficacy in our community. We copied that, the examples of Sesar Chavez and the sanctuary movement of the eighties and we did like prayer visuals in front of the ice headquarters. We wrote to the head immigration officials and we wrote down notes of compassion with Bible verses. We did all these things, right? We leveraged the community cultural wealth of the Brown church and we were the Brown church. And after all, hope had been lost. We thought this was not going to happen. We get a call that says pester NOI is going to be released today. Right? So that's a practical example, right? And so I can give a lot more. But again, that's the community cultural wealth, God given revelation 21 glory and honor of the nations being leveraged. Um, and I should say though, is that the point is not to just say that one ethnic group has glory and honor glory and honor, but others don't. That's , that's what's unfortunately happened for many years at least subconsciously. But the point is that we need all the glory and honor on the table to be the full body of Christ. Right .

Speaker 1:

Dude, I love that Robert. And , and actually that, that was a perfect segue. I wanted to ask you too, why? Um, so for, you know, our audience is pretty diverse, super diverse. And so , uh, if , uh, if you have a white brother and sister or you have an African American brother or sister and they're , and they're watching this, or you have an Asian brother and sister and they're watching this and they're like , um, they're like, why? Why, why should they care? Now I think we've already made a good , uh , a good reason why, because it's biblical. It is what following Jesus, it's his example. I love the Galilean principle, by the way, brother, I had never heard that. Thank you for teaching me cause that was, that was fire. Um , but as they're listening to this, I, I want to hear you make a point and, and almost like a maybe a plead , uh, you know, for , uh, for these other brothers and sisters. Why should they care about what you're talking about, about the Brown church and how, and how do they even fit into it? Sure. No, that's

Speaker 3:

great. Great question. Well, first of all, it's a body of Christ question. Like Paul tells us in Romans Corinthians, you know, it's like we are the, we are the body of Christ. We belong to one another. We need one another, right? And so we need one another. And along with each other comes at the different community, cultural wealth that we bring God given. So we need it all. And I'm not privileging the Brown shirts over any other cultural group. We need everyone. But , um, in the U S context at least , um , as Latinos and Latinas Christians, we've been kind of left out of the conversation. And as Asian Americans, we've been left out of the conversation largely. Um, and so when I'm saying it's like, boy , um, as part of the body of Christ , um, for the body of Christ to grow the way I would plead, like, you know, we are your sisters and brothers, please, you know , welcome us to the table. Um , I would also say that Brown is, is also a metaphor. It's not necessarily like, okay, I've got Brown skin literally, because let's , even as Latinos, we come in all different shades. We're Brown, we're super affair or blonde or dark skin where indigenous, where we're African descent or Asian, where all those things. So Brown is not even necessarily a particular sort of ethnic group. It's on a deeper level. Brown is a metaphor for racial liminality, racial liminality or racial in between this in the United States. Um , and so in that sense, many people can have , anybody can be Brown in that sense, right? It's, it's , it's sort of a symbol for those that feel in between. Right. And so everyone's welcome. Everyone's welcome into that Brown space. And Brown and Brown is a space. It's, it's fluid. It's constantly changing. Groups are coming in, groups are going out. Italians used to be part of it. You shouldn't . Europeans use used to be part of it. Um, that's part of everybody . Right ? And so it's , it's more of a , it's a fluid space and a metaphor and it doesn't exclude anybody. And I would say this, I would say also that this in between space, again, Jesus was Brown too in that sense. I mean, he was, he wasn't, he wasn't literally Brown, but that's not my point. The point is he lived in this, in between space, in Galilee, and it was from that place of , in between this, that the world could be changed. And the ultimate goal is, is , is what Dr. King calls to be loving community of. All right. The revelation picture of everybody as being winning Christ. But Brown is that in between space, it welcomes all and it provides the opportunity for transformation. So good man. And for those of you listening and our leaders, I , that's why I consistently say you have no idea how important you are. I know you guys are grinding it out. You're, you're in some, you know, some hood somewhere and you have a , you know, made me working with 12 kids. But , but

Speaker 1:

you have no idea. You are the tip of the spear for this, for this church renewal movement. And I hope that you're hearing , uh , from , from Dr. Romero , um, that how important you are because when you start to frame all this, you're, you're not, although you might be marginalized in, in , uh, in our society, in, in God's economy, in the kingdom, you are , you're front and center. And I love, well, let's go back to Galilee, right? Like this is where Jesus made his, is the center of what he was doing. And I love that framing of that. Um, and I've been at Capernum , I've been to Jesus hood, right? Where , where Peter was from. And I, and I, I just tried to soak that in to think like, this was Jesus neighborhood. Like, and, and, and I loved how you framed that. So, you know, leaders , uh, urban leaders, you're out there, you're listening this, we just want to let you know how important you are. Um, and , and I hope that this framing of this , um , just fills you with the sense of identity and belonging in the kingdom and oppress you to understand your, your cultural, your ethnic gifting and treasure and that it's important. And , and here's the thing, friends, your students need to see that they desperately need to see Christ in all that wrapped in your ethnicity, wrapped in , in your culture. Um, and, and, and for some of us, we gotta do the hard work of reframing all that. And I think that's part of it. And that's why , uh , Dr. Romero, Robert, your, your book's so important because it gives us some frameworks for that. If you've done the hard work and we just need that , we need to read it and we need to be able to take that language and that understanding of that theology and then continue to live that out. So, Hey, could you do, because listen, friends, the book's coming out, you need to go and buy it. Okay. And so , um, and, and I know Robert is a really humble dude. And so , um, but , uh, just you can tell even from our time together here, it's just God has gifted him. God has gifted you brother too , to just frame this. And it's a, it's a, it's a word we need. And so how , like when you were writing this book , um, tell, tell us again, like who are you writing it for? What's your hope for, for this book?

Speaker 3:

Sure. Thank you. I'm very honored by what you shared. And I would echo also that like, yeah , you leaders are in the community, you know, doing that hard work of daily discipleship. You're the heroes, right? You are the ones that are gonna make that as you build this type of a biblical framework into your discipleship, that's what's going to transform the world. Um , and that being said , um , I think the, there's three, three audiences. First audience is for the students. Like Anna , I want them to find a home where they can say, you belong. You don't have to wander anymore. Welcome home to the church. You're part of this 500 year history. It's amazing. You're not alone. So to create a sense of identity and belonging, right? You are the Brown church and there's a Brown church poem that articulates all of this as well. The second audience is for , um , my own sort of academic world of ethnic studies to say, gosh, well, I appreciate it . I learned so much from ethnic studies about different injustices and how that plays out in so many different areas of life, but I hope that we would consider that we would consider the role of, of religion and faith, right. As a motivating factor for communities of color. Um, third, the , this is for , uh , a majority culture, churches, institutions to say, we thank you. Like we've learned much and we're grateful for your glory and honor. But to be in the fullness of the body of Christ, to be the beloved community, we need to have a conversation, but how to integrate , um, all the glory and honor, right? To make this thing work and to be able to move forward.

Speaker 1:

Man. So I love that man. So friends , um , we , when this book comes out , uh, you gotta grab it. So the Brown church by dr Robert Chao Romero , um, you know, what's interesting brother, is that when you shared your first, when you shared the first audience that you're hoping for, bro, I got a little, I got a little teary man. I'm not gonna lie. And I think part of that is , um, it's this , this deep sense of , um, you know, wanting to belong. You know what I mean? And when you're, when you're mixed, like when you're like, you know, there's that phrase, third culture, you're always like, who do I belong? Like, where, where do I belong? Right? Um, for those of us who struggle with ethnic identity, like, where, where am I supposed to go? And, and that goes along with Anna's struggle with within, how does that fit into my, my spiritual identity, right? And , and it can't be, and I know there's well-meaning Christians out there and it's like, look, it's just, I , you know, your identities in Christ, like, just get over it. But I'm like, yeah, but, but what you're talking about is a whole system that looks just like you, that things just like you, that comes from where you come from. So yeah, that, that works for you because when you say identity in Christ, that looks a certain way, you know what I mean? And so , um, and man, I, yeah , let's just feel a little bit of emotion in their brother. Like just thinking like for all the Ana's of the world. And if you're an Ana listening to this today, man, I hope that that you would find your identity in home and what we're talking about and , and the truth of the gospel, but the full gospel. And that's what I feel like you're, you're pulling, you're the layers out , um , that have been there for hundreds and hundreds of years. And so , um, man, thank you so much, Robert. Uh, just for , uh , your time today. Uh, thank you for the work that you've put into all these books and articles and all the students you're working with and , um, and also you're the co-chair of, of some you've created something else, haven't you? Um ,

Speaker 3:

so , so I had the privilege with my wife and Alexia and Mel pastors , Melvin and [inaudible] to help launch the Matthew 25 movement, which is a movement of churches doing stuff around immigration. And we recently just moved to , uh , recreating our board and stuff like that. So now I'm a board member , um, but we kind of for the first few years launched it, you know , just from the trenches, you know , and so now we're , we're excited about that too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, man. That's awesome. And then, but, and then cause you're not busy enough , um, you also started your , you, you, I think your co-chair as well when you start something, Jesus for revolutionaries.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah. So that's right. So we wear different hats at different times. But so that's the ministry that Erica and I have been doing together for about 15 years, where we have been exploring these exact same topics with students like Anna . How do you reconcile issues of justice and race with Jesus and do it in a way, again that centers Christ and God's word. Um, and, and that presents, you know , a holistic gospel, right , of social and personal transformation. And so we've been doing that for about 15 years. Jesus revolutionaries.

Speaker 1:

Yeah , I love that man. Well, friends, I hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. Uh , dr Robert Schauer marrow . Thank you brothers so much for just your time and just who you are in the kingdom of God, man. You and your wife Erica , just um, Oh man, you guys are such a gift and I hope you hear that from us and thank you so much for pouring into the UIW family and other urban leaders and whoever else is listening to this. And I hope, here's my hope too. I hope that all pastors listen to this or, or read your book and is so, so important. So thank you so much brother our so appreciate you man and friends. We look forward to seeing you at our next episodes , um, and at this podcast for the futures here. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks Tommy .

Speaker 4:

[inaudible]

Speaker 5:

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