The Future Is Here

EP. 5: The Peacemaking Church w/ Jon Huckins

June 24, 2020 Urban Youth Workers Institute / Jon Huckins Season 1 Episode 5
The Future Is Here
EP. 5: The Peacemaking Church w/ Jon Huckins
Chapters
The Future Is Here
EP. 5: The Peacemaking Church w/ Jon Huckins
Jun 24, 2020 Season 1 Episode 5
Urban Youth Workers Institute / Jon Huckins

Peacemaking is not just a good idea, it’s the mission of God and the vocation of God’s people. So what would the world look like if the Church took seriously, our call to be peacemakers? In pursuit of the answer, our guest Jon Huckins from The Global Immersion Project talks to our host Tommy Nixon about how he immerses himself into conflicts around the globe. In this episode of The Future Is Here podcast, learn how peacemaking is central to our faith, for it is an actual way of life and the very adventure that we've been saved into.


Support the show (https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E12333&id=12)

Show Notes Transcript

Peacemaking is not just a good idea, it’s the mission of God and the vocation of God’s people. So what would the world look like if the Church took seriously, our call to be peacemakers? In pursuit of the answer, our guest Jon Huckins from The Global Immersion Project talks to our host Tommy Nixon about how he immerses himself into conflicts around the globe. In this episode of The Future Is Here podcast, learn how peacemaking is central to our faith, for it is an actual way of life and the very adventure that we've been saved into.


Support the show (https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E12333&id=12)

Speaker 1:

Are you listening? Hey fam . Welcome to the features here, podcast . This is for the leaders, the dreamers provocateurs misfits , the frustrated frontline leaders who are charging in the kingdom for tired of reactive church. It's time to build the church we dream of now the features here. So don't get left behind. Are you listening? Let's get into it. Welcome to another episode of the, is here podcast . I'm your host, Tommy Nixon. I'm excited for today's episode. I got my man Jon Huckins from the global immersion project with me here. Welcome brother. Thanks for being on. Love it. Good to be with you. Yeah, man. And so today we're actually, you know, I'm actually here today. If I'm going to be honest with a little bit of a heavy heart and the episode for today is the peacemaking church now , uh, last night , um, there was there's riots going on in Minneapolis. There's there's , uh, civil unrest. There's all this stuff going on. Um, for the last three weeks , uh, Marbury , Brianna Taylor, George , uh, Floyd, and, and, and our community is really hurting right now. And so I just, we , we had, we had set this up, John, and we're just going to talk about it, but I feel like , um, the idea of the peacemaking church is so, so crucial right now for not only for the church, but for our country. Um, and so I'm gonna , if I could just set us up really quick. Um, I just wanna read Matthew five. It says this Jesus tells us blessed are the poor in spirit. There's the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek for, they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for there for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful for, they will be shown mercy. Let's say the pure in heart for, they will see God. And here it is blessed are the peacemakers for, they will be called sons and daughters of God blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Now, as we set up this conversation today, John I, one way that , that I have looked at these beatitudes is that one Jesus starts out and goes, here's, who's welcomed the poor in spirit. And everybody blows their mind because they're like, Whoa, I , if I suck at being spiritual, I , if I'm not good at this, you're saying that I actually get to get in. I'm included and he's like, yep , you're in. And then he starts to shape. And here's where it starts to shape you as you become the person I've created a B. And so we start shaping that and he talks about blessed are those who mourn and , and those who hunger and thirst rices . These are the type of people that are in God's kingdom. And then it gets down to this place where it says, blessed are the peacemakers for, they will be called sons and daughters of God. And what's interesting in that it's not just an identity, but it's almost like a, it's a vocation that, that we're called to be peacemakers, that the church is called to be this, this group and this peculiar group of people who are called to be peacemakers in this world. And I really feel like so much of the church. So many of us have never one we've read that, but we've never really taken it seriously. We don't see our vacate vocation or , or our calling as, as peacemakers. And so I'm so glad to have you on the call today. And so, Oh one, can you just tell us a little bit about what you do, what the goal of emergent project is? And then can you explain what, what you guys see theologically and practically about what being a peacemaker is?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, man, you bet that fired me up a little bit here and that. Whoo . Um, yeah, so I'm the co founding director of global immersion and, or a peacemaking training organization. Our work is to train people of faith, to engage our divided world in restorative ways. And , uh, you know, so the short version is we , we train, we train people for the work of peace. And for us, we talk about peace, not as like this other worldly, 30,000 foot ideal with unicorns folks buy in buses in the 1960s, but it's this very subversive, costly way of life that may cost us everything. But that ultimately is the path of Jesus. That is the path of the cross, not the sword. And so what are the tangible practices associated with being a community of people shaped by cross rather than a sword in today's conflicted world? How do we have hard conversations with our family who disagrees with us politically? How do we have hard conversations with our congregants who theologically inherited disruptive and colonized theologies? How do we, how do we engage the political climate right now with friends who think differently than we do? How do we engage the reality of George Floyd's murder in such a way that exposes the humanity, the injustice, the races on the white supremacy that is baked into the bones of our country. It needs to be exposed without just perpetuating the violence and the conflict. So, so our work is to walk with people of faith , um , into that Jesus' ethic, that way of life. And, and we do that in a lot of ways. Historically, we've done it through immersion in global conflict. We've found there's no better classroom to teach peace than actual conflict, and there's no better teachers of peace than those that are practicing it in the middle of conflict. You've been with us to the, to the middle East, to Palestine, Israel and experience firsthand what it means to learn from people, working for peace in the midst of a violent conflict in it. And especially for those of us in the West, you know, we , we can often answer other areas in the posture of heroes rather than learners. And there's something disruptive about listening and learning from people that are on the underside of power, on the underside of empire, who exposing to us the power and the potency of peace, and the fact that it's not passive. And , um, it's a very proactive movement toward conflict. And so we that in the mid , these trips in the middle East, we have them here at the border and see Quanta San Diego around the plate of the immigrant and all the ways that's connected to other issues that are, that are real here in my neighborhood. I live 13 minutes from the border, so this is my own , uh , binational neighborhood. Um, and we do it through, through training and in other ways, workshops, webinars , uh , and online courses, that kind of thing. So that is our work. Um, and the moment, you know, to, to talk about the , the church as an instrument of peace in the midst of conflict is, is now , uh, and , and it is like you said, pretty foreign to a lot of people's vocabulary, theologically and practically. So in some ways it feels like we're starting at square one to just get back to remember who we are as the people of God ,

Speaker 1:

man. That's so good, man. And that I'll tell you right now, friends, I went on this , uh , Israel, Palestine trip with these guys and it blew my mind. Yeah. And I'm pretty, you know, I can be pretty critical things and I could be like, eh , I don't know. But literally this trip blew my mind and it blew my theological understanding and, and it, and it forced me to deal with what does this actually look like? And so I know for a lot of people probably listening, John, you know, when we say the term peacemaker, right. Um, here, here's some images that might come to mind , um, hippies, Hey man, you know, just peace of love, you know , uh, Hey, like , like it's, it's kind of this inactive, just like, Hey, and , and in our world today, it might be that, you know, you're a Facebook activist , right? You put, you, you put the , the wherever , um , horrible atrocity happened in whatever country we put that flag over our picture and, and Hey, we're with you. Right. And, but that's not actually what you're talking about. So can you explain a little bit more like when, when , uh, when people listen to this and they go , uh , peacemaking, like, Oh, you don't want me to do anything? What do you mean?

Speaker 2:

That's good. Yeah. You'll notice the fact that there is a distinct difference between the word peacemaking and peacekeeping. And , uh, I think the first there there's times where peacekeeping can actually be appropriate. Uh, but that presumes that the piece that they're keeping is actually a holistic piece that looks like equity, that look the reality of restoration and healing. And so most often peace making is associated with peacekeeping . And it really that's just about maintaining the status quo. And I would argue for those of us who find ourselves, especially in the U S American nation state, which is really a modern day empire in so many ways, we are so special to people like myself as a white man are so bloated with privilege, which is just this ability to walk away from the brokenness and justice of our world. It's pretty convenient for me to be a peacekeeper cause I'm still going to be the one who's holding the power and I'm going to be the one who can sit in my relative comforts. I'm not the one on the underside of power. So peace making is actually a proactive movement to disrupt that pseudo piece, that pseudo piece, that many of us have just begun to embrace as reality as normative and , and that's problematic. So peacemaking is a proactive movement toward conflict, equipped with tools to heal and to transform rather than tools to win or to destroy . And that goes back to like the whole Facebook activism thing. So many times we're in this, we're in this mic drop culture where, Oh , if we just say the right thing on Twitter or Facebook, and we win an argument with bullet points, it's not actually healing. It's not transforming anyone. And so for us, we, we talk about peace and peacemaking as, as central to the biblical story. And I think that's really important for us to ground ourselves there . You know, if we talk about the narrative of, of God, as told throughout the biblical story, we, we begin with a story that is whole , right . It, there is Shalom. There is peace. Things are rightly ordered. It's when humanity grabs for the fruit of power, that that piece is fractured and God makes it God's mission throughout the rest of the story to fix what was broken. It's. The heal is to bring restoration and healing. And ironically, the people of God who actually embodied that piece , that restoration where those on the underside of power, there are those on the underside of privilege, they were almost always those that were being occupied and oppressed. And it was through that community that God taught the world. What restoration was to look like, which is so interesting for us to think about that theologically today, for someone like me to realize as a U S American citizen, I actually have more in common with, with Pharaoh than with Moses. I have more in common islet than with Jesus. So how am I tuning into the community of God that is on the underside of power to allow them to express to me what healing looks like? How do they walk with me towards my own healing to dismantle this pseudo piece that I've been raised into and theologically think about that. Yeah . With very practical implications of how I engage my neighbor, how I engage my other, who am I listening to? Who am I learning from? Who am I exposing myself to as a version of reality, rather than just people that make me feel comfortable in my own bubble. Um , it's very disruptive, but I think that's what this peacemaking is . It's about disruption. We're here to disrupt a pseudo piece , such that God can bring about the restorative piece that we see waged in the cross and embodied in resurrection. And the apostle Paul in second Corinthians, five says you are to be ambassadors of that piece . Go live that. And so that's why we say the mission of God is restoration. And the vocation of God's people is peacemaking it's to practice and participate in the restorative work that God is doing in the world.

Speaker 3:

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Speaker 2:

bro , you just you're blowing your blowing minds, bro . I love how you guys frame and,

Speaker 1:

and really, I mean, for our audience to what we've been telling, what I've been telling him , what I believe deeply is that, is that the tip of the spear for this church renewal movement that the Holy Spirit's doing and consistently doing. And, and it is that it's our leaders, you know? And so you guys who are listening that , um, it's all the people from the hood, from the disenfranchised, the marginalized, like these are it's you, that God is using to continue to renew his church and move this, this movement forward. Um , and I really believe as we talk about the features here, you know, it's young, it's , it's urban, it's multiethnic. It's it's that space. And we've been saying , uh , John, just so you know, like there , our definition of urban is a culture of shared suffering and, and what I, what burdens me right now for the church, especially in this time, like today is our inability to suffer well with each other. We , it just seems like this idea of compassion is like, you just have a huge part of the church looking at another part of the church and the rest of humanity going your pain doesn't matter. It's not real it's, you know, and, and yet there's this group of people, the church, these disciples of Christ that are actually called to sit in that middle to reconcile that, to be peacemakers. But so many of us don't even know that that's what we're called to. And so friends, I would encourage you, like, like what he's talking about, what John's talking about, this idea of look through scripture as through that lens as my vocation and the narrative of scripture is about peacemaking reconciliation , uh , compassionate to suffer with. And so when you start looking at the, at the Bible that way , um, from , uh , from the point of view of the oppressed, it changes the whole game and you have a million plus young people , uh , leaving the church every year. This is the gospel they need to hear. And it , and by and large, this is not what's being taught. And so, yeah, I love that. And so one of the things that you guys have done really well, John, because, you know, yeah. We talk about peacemaking and we talk about the theology of it and people are like, wow, you know , that sounds really good. Or I connect with that. Yes. But then, then it's kind of like, Oh , okay. Then what, what do I do? And you guys actually have a framework for that. Can , can you share that with us?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. So with this understanding that that restoration is a mission of God and peacemaking is the vocation of God's people. We have to ask, like, you're saying, what does that look like? How does that show up? And , uh, again, I think this is the , the, the threat and all, this is some kind of disembodied. Faith is more about ideals than a way of life. And Jesus wasn't interested in just like soaring rhetoric. It was a practice way of life that changed broken stuff in us and in the world. And so , um, we want all of our trainings walk through four core practices that we see played out throughout the biblical story and, and really practices that we've learned through those on the underside of power that they've lived in their own context and are mirroring back to us as really a collective practice of repentance that allows us to participate in restoration rather than just perpetuating the divides. So the first practice is to simply see, to see the humanity, the dignity, the image of God and everyone, and to ask questions like who have I been taught to see, and who have I been taught not to see, to understand that this practice is largely confessional, that we have inherited callus . Like we've inherited cataracts in our eyes that tell us there is an other that is unworthy of our, seeing the humanity and the dignity, the image of God in them, whether it's race or socioeconomic or political. I was raised to not see my sisters and brothers who are working in the fields that I drove through for 20 years, bending over picking the food I would have for dinner. Not that anyone around me was saying, don't look at those people. It was, I wasn't given the capacity theologically socially, politically to see them as equals. So I have to do some confessional work. Is it confessional practice for all of us who have I been taught to see and taught not to see this could be someone like in , many of us have, have moved out of a very faith that we can no longer embrace. Cause it's just whether it's judgmental or it's just dysfunctional and society. And we begin to not see the very community we came out of. We begin to demonize and other are uncles and our aunts, even though we disagree with them, doesn't mean that they're any less image bearers of God. You know , when we have delegations down here to the border, we sit with the border patrol and we sit with immigration activists and you see the, the broken system of immigration exposed and you begin to other and demonize people that are still, if we can disagree with what they do or their policies, but the everyday peacemaker is to see the humanity and dignity, the image of God and everyone . So this is a , how do we, how do we learn and how do we invite Jesus to heal our site ? What is broken and what is beautiful right on my neighborhood, how am I walking my block and having eyes to see that, how am I interrogating the way that I view the news and my dining room tables and who's the rounded in my family reunions. Um, so that's our first practice. The second practice is to, is to immerse it's to once we have seen, we actually step off the road of comfort that we have inherited and move into. What is real. When you come to San Diego, you are taught to see sea world LA Hoya beaches. You step off the road of comfort. You immerse into the reality. You've come into Chicano park, it's underneath the highway five, and you hear the story of occupation and oppression for so many of my neighbors. You , you hear the story of 40% of my neighbors who are undocumented and the reality that they aren't getting stimulus checks right now, they are living in a day to day survival like that . It's only when you immerse off our road of comfort and in step into reality that we begin to awake into what is real right around us. How do we immerse into those conversations? Our family and friends that are terrifying. Like we don't, if everybody peacemakers who immersed don't run away from conflict, we move towards it. But again, we move into those hard conversations. Listening longer than feels comfortable is st . Francis says to , to seek to understand rather than to be understood, we're entering and not as like the heroes who are gonna win and get everything right. But as learners who are seeking to participate in God's healing. So see immerse in, and again, this is ultimately, this is the model of incarnation. That's how we talk about Jesus God's version of immersion into the human conflict and story. And didn't come on the war horse of the Roman empire, but in the body of a suffering servant, the whole story we're part of. And so how does that look for how we engage our neighborhoods, our cities, our churches, our families, such that we can then move to the contending. And that's the third practice is to contend, looks like not getting even, but getting creative and love. This is the model of, of suffering. And self-sacrifice rather than conquering and hero worship. This is the cross rather than the sword. And this ultimately requires that we choose the path of nonviolence rather than violence, that we choose the path of , uh , of laying oneself down before taking the life of another. But it also is, is not passive. Like this is what the , the , the nonviolent peacemaking heroes of our path, whether it's gone to your mother, Teresa, okay, it's a proactive movement towards the conflict to expose what's unjust. But we , through creative, this is Jesus talking about turning the other cheek, walking the extra mile, giving away everything. Those are very subversive practices in the context of the first century, Roman empire, they weren't passage . So to contend is , is actually rolling up our sleeves and fighting for justice. But in ways that don't compromise our own humanity and image, bearing this by taking an extinguishing the life of another, ultimately to see God's restoration. The fourth practice is less a practice that we do and more celebration and participation in what God is doing. That resurrection is real. The kingdom of God is at hand and where are we seeing restoration right now, even if it's just mustard seeds in the midst of such a broken and hurting world. And , and we trust that that restoration is being made real and it's being made real through our practice of seeing immersing and contending on behalf of God's working .

Speaker 1:

Hmm , bro. That is so good. See, immerse, contend, restore. One of the things that strikes me Jonna as you're talking is I just go, how, how come nobody's being discipled this way? How come, how come by and large. When I, when I think about this , uh, it's definitely not a framework that we use in our communities. It's not, you know, like I don't see a ton of churches, but you guys work with a lot of churches. I know that not a ton of churches that take this really seriously. In fact, I mean the national dialogue , well, we don't have a national dialogue. Like we, there's no dialogue. There's people shouting at each other. Um, there's, you know, jabs and memes and trolls, and it's just, it's , it's ugly. I literally had a conversation with someone yesterday, person of color, who , uh, said, Hey, can I, can I ask you a question? And , and they wanted to ask a question about some of the stuff that was going on, but didn't feel like they had any safe places to do it. And, and they're in a , in a predominantly white environment. And so it's just interesting to me that this, this idea of, of this, or having these hard conversations are actually entering into conflict is so rare in the church. And so I would love to know a man, what, and maybe you can give me some hope today, bro. But as we talk about the , the future of the , the features here, what, what would you want the church of the future to look like? Like, like talk to me about that. Like, what's your hope and all this, and, or maybe you have an example of some churches that are, that are moving in this way and, and really , uh, bracing this and seeing some, some movement on it. Because I feel like it's really rare people don't walk around going, I'm a peacemaker. And if I can really put this out there, it feels even more like a movement for white folks who have gotten a little woke that they're like, okay, this is wrong. And I want to, I need to embrace this life, you know, but, but for our leaders, it's like, we, you know, we work with a lot of like kind of next gen ethnic, urban leaders. So they're like, yeah, I do like , uh , we understand they're , they're woke. And since they understand , uh, you know, the context and the game, but so, you know, share a little bit about that with me. Like what, what are you seeing or what , or what would you say even to our community? Sorry, there was a lot of questions in there , brother, but I know you can answer them all, dude. You're really smart.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I don't know if I'll answer them all, but I know that I am, I am a white Christian man who has inherited so much of the power and privilege I speak of. And, and so I, I'm very careful to say, Hey, here's, you know, for those urban leaders here that are listening to this and that are , that you're working with. I can't , um, my starting point isn't presuming I know the answers to those questions. What I can say is , um, that there is a hope in a movement, in a trajectory towards collective healing, like toward the beloved community wires . We are all around that table that we have tools to move through our own crap. People like me who are confronting all of this privileged I was born into and people on the underside of power, who, who haven't necessarily had the tools to navigate conflict and in violence in ways that are constructive or even reflective of their faith, that there is a shared table that we can move toward as we do our work together. And I think that the hope that I have, or that the , the opportunity here is for us to , as the violence is being exposed more and more, whether it's, you know , in our , our systems of our nation state or in the hierarchies of our church structures, if there is something that's broken and that we have become so tethered, our faith has become so tethered to our need and association for power , uh, and our orientation to militarism, to conquering, to winning that when we begin to release and repents of those idols , uh, that have really become , uh, such obstacles to any kind of coherent faith and practice, we can begin to see each other. We can begin to learn from one another. We can begin to see there is an equity. There is a flourishing that is not only possible, but that is necessary for our collective healing. And , um, and I'm beginning to see that. And that , that to me is what gives me hope is that shared table, that beloved community, beyond that we, when we all do our work and own, what is ours to own, I can only speak of what I need to own. I'm not going to , again, project on those that come from different contexts, but this path towards peace requires we proactively sit around that table, have those hard conversations, invite each other, to be exposed to our inherited blind spots and have the courage to listen, to feedback and critique and make changes and repent of these broken systems. The church of the future cannot be run by people like me who have come out of an evangelical construct that just keeps people like me in power. It has to be led by that that 20, 45 year you talked about that is beginning now with those leaders who have been on the underside of power, on the underside of the empire to help resurrect us towards the future that God is making. And so that future is possible. And I think there's more and more people who are waking up to their privilege. And aren't just talking about it on Facebook, but that are humbly listening and learning and fencing and repenting, and that's a future worth our lives in my opinion.

Speaker 1:

Oh man, I love that, bro. I want to see that church, you know , um, one of the things too, just for you guys, listening, man, all you leaders out there, listen, we're, we're also we're framing it or feeling heavy today because of the institutional racism and, and , um, and white power structures that, that, that we really have to deal with. And a lot of you have to deal with and , and are, are struggling with, are being crushed by. Um, there's also another aspect of this friends that , um, we're also talking about power structures within the institution of the church, that, that what John, what's your sh you're sharing with us and framing for us theologically and in practice, you know, the practical application of that is also the reality as, as leaders that we need to create churches and businesses and institutions that don't have these same power structures. Um, and that's what I, when I think about this, and I think about the church of the future, what I want to see is, is leaders that lead in a different way with this type of framework and understanding that don't run from conflict that don't try to hold onto power, that don't try to crush others . I see this all in all types of all denominations. I see it in nonprofits. I see it in businesses. I see it , there are these many, and it's all this representation of this larger issue that we're feeling heavy and weighing with today. Um, and so I, friends, I would really encourage , uh, think through this, think through this theologically, think through this, the see immerse contend, restore. How do you do that? Even on a, on a micro level , um , with those around you, I, John even talked about your own neighborhood, your own people, your own family , um , but also as leaders within the institutions that we have ,

Speaker 2:

because it is ,

Speaker 1:

uh , it is rampant , uh , throughout all the, all , you know , the institution, especially the institution , the church of these type of power structures and the step of understanding. And so , um, I really appreciate that, John, thank you, bro, for sharing that and shaping that. Um, and so I know that you also, you read , uh, you read, you read, he wrote a book, right? You and Jair . Tell us a little bit about that book.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, it's called main , the divides creative love, and it conflicted world came out a couple of years ago and it really it's , uh , it talks about this theology that I , I briefly shared out at the onset of this call and then digs into the practices of see immerse contend, restore from a theological framework in light of the, the, the life that teachings resurrection of Jesus and to make it super practical for how we're seeing that live out in our own neighborhoods, how we're learning from those on the underside of the power who are living this out. And in global context that we've learned from it to building this framework, this practice way of life. Um, and really the ultimate goal is to, to, to like w w when our starting point is understanding or thinking that the journey towards power's the destination rather than the journey of the cross is the destination. We can really muddy things up no matter what our background is. You know, if we can just take the power back of the church, but the structure is still broken, then , then this , the brokenness disperse situates itself. So our hope is to, to help offer a theological and practical way to engage in peacemaking that sets us on a trajectory of the cross. It informs and effects our lives, our neighborhoods, our tables , um, you know, I'm thinking of this, I'm sitting in my neighborhood right now , um, and in , in awake to the reality that so many well-intentioned church folk have come to our neighborhood, but they haven't done the work of simply seeing what's here. They haven't immersed it's their neighborhood, and they just try to slap their brand on the next best service, rather than just listen to the work that's already being done here. That is Holy and sacred. I'm looking at the faithful volunteers that come out here to our local neighborhood school every single morning and hand out food to my neighbors. And like, what if the church of the future just was the best volunteer imaginable rather than just getting their branding on their food distribution service? You know, like this is the, this is the stuff we talk about in this book and that we're trying to shape, especially people like me into a posture of humility and listening, but also courageous movement to disrupt and dismantle the pseudo piece that we've inherited in the empire.

Speaker 1:

Uh , so good, man. The last thing to , I'd say, Franz as you're listening to this is, you know, young people are leaving the church because , uh , they're not compelled by, by the life that they see. I mean, they, and , and really they're going, look, my world is on fire. Like it is crumbling. Like, I feel bad for all of you guys who are graduating this year. Like, I'm so sorry, like 2020 sucks to graduate or have any like major life milestone. And so that's the future that they're looking at. But, but imagine though, if we offer them a practical gospel lived out that actually changes the world around them, that brings hope that that gives them a reason to wake up in the morning and continue to fight and continue to, to, to, to, to bring peace, to be an active part of God's kingdom. That's what I love about this idea of the peacemaking church that we have to get honest and real about our vocation as peacemakers. And so, John, thank you so much, brother. I so appreciate you. And , um , all the work that you've done, I appreciate how you've taught me. Um, I appreciate the other leaders that you've connected me with. I appreciate this movement , um , that really started out of your heart. As you, as God kind of opened your eyes, you started to see the suffering of people and I, and I love some of those stories. So friends go ahead , uh, go out there , uh, or Amazon, right? Uh, meaning the divides , uh, by John Huckins and Jair Swire and , uh, check it out. And , um, and let's start moving towards the peacemaking church brother. Thank you so much for being all, bro.

Speaker 2:

You bet. Thank you for your work and faithful, crack this for all of you. Listen. And that's where it matters. So keep getting asked it . We'll follow your lead.

Speaker 3:

Hi brother. We'll see you . Alright . If you enjoy what you heard today, we don't want to leave you empty handed series , a couple of resources to help you shape the future. Get access to our latest leadership resource by visiting you Y wwi.org and join our email list. [inaudible] .