The second season of The Future Is Here #Podcast has finally arrived! In episode 12 titled "Women Are the Future," we talk with Nicole Smithee, CEO and Co-Founder of Iridescent Women, a digital media company and membership program committed to awakening and championing the brilliance of every woman through honest conversations and authentic connections. Nicole sits down with our host Tommy Nixon to explore the continued barriers for women in ministry and how to overcome them.
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The second season of The Future Is Here #Podcast has finally arrived! In episode 12 titled "Women Are the Future," we talk with Nicole Smithee, CEO and Co-Founder of Iridescent Women, a digital media company and membership program committed to awakening and championing the brilliance of every woman through honest conversations and authentic connections. Nicole sits down with our host Tommy Nixon to explore the continued barriers for women in ministry and how to overcome them.
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Are you listening? Hey fan, welcome to the features here, podcast. This is for the leaders, the dreamers provocateurs misfits, the frustrated frontline leaders who are charging in the kingdom. If you're tired of reactive church, it's time to build the church we dream of. Now the future is here. So don't get left behind. Are you listening? Let's get in.
Speaker 2:Welcome back friends to another episode of the future is here. I'm your host, Tommy Nixon, uh, really excited about today, man. And I'm excited. Welcome back. We're actually in season two, um, and excited for this next season and some of the guests we're going to have on. So just remember to set it up for us. So you guys remember again, what we're really looking at is the future is here. What I mean by that is we know that by 2045, the majority in our country becomes the minority. Let's be clear about that. I mean, white folks become the minority in our country, but for those who are 18 and under, that happened in 2020. And so that this next generation that we're trying to reach with the gospel, they're already living in the future. And so the future is here. Um, and we want to make sure that you are resource, that, that you're, we're having the conversations that help you as a leader in the kingdom of God, know how to reach this next generation and becoming more of an authentic Christ follower so that this next generation has examples to say, Oh, that's what a transformed life looks like. And so we want to, we want to bring up all the things we want to talk about, all the issues, um, so that you, as the leader in the kingdom are equipped to know how to reach this next generation with the gospel as we, um, we don't want to replace the gospel, but I do think we need to reframe it. And so, um, my guest today is Nicole Smithy, who is with ERDA, she's a founder or co-founder of air desperate women. Um, I'm really excited to have her on today. We actually got to experience an amazing trip together in Guatemala. I'm going to explain that a little bit later, but Nicole, thank you so much for being on and thank you for having me. I love what you're doing and really, really excited to be a guest today. So it's going to be a lot of fun. Absolutely. So let's just get, let's get the tough thing out of the way first. Um, so Nicole was gracious enough a couple of years ago we had an event called fierce and it was, uh, an event for young women, um, and who she was she's now that I know so perfect to be out of bed. Um, I'm glad she was there. Um, recognizing I'm the CEO of urban workers Institute. We're on a trip in Guatemala, um, with compassion international and I go, hi, I'm Tommy. She was like, yeah, yeah, I know I spoke at your event last, last year and I felt like such an idiot. And Nicole is, so you were so gracious to me because I would have made a lot more fun of me a little bit. You gave it to me a little bit,
Speaker 3:You know, the trip progressed, but I think it was your first year, right? You was a transitional year, two, there's a passing of the Baton. So I'm like, okay, there's great.
Speaker 2:Hey man, I appreciate that. So, um, today what we're going to be talking about, um, which kind of feels like a weird topic. So, um, I was, I was teasing, uh, Nicole earlier, too. I'm making fun of myself, uh, you know, as I do. And I had, uh, I had just sent her some of the questions earlier today. Um, so there it is friends that's, those are some of my failings. And so, um, but I was having a hard time thinking about this when we think about women, um, uh, women empowerment. When we think about when leadership, because the reality for me, Nicole, is that I grew up on a single mom, super strong leader, like everything that makes me a good leader. I really did get from my mom. And she was a phenomenal leader. My sister's a phenomenal leader. I have four daughters. I didn't know if he knew that, but I have four daughters. Um, and we're trying to grow them into leaders in the kingdom of God. You know, I, whether they're a girl or a boy, like that's who we are. Right. So part of it, when we come to this, this idea of, you know, empowering women, um, kind of, for me, I'm like, well, duh, but the reality is the world we live in. We still seem so far back. And especially in recent years, it feels like we've taken even farther steps back. And so you started this thing called iridescent women, which is, it's really like, it's a lot of things, but in general, if we want to give people a picture of it's a digital media company, right. For the empowerment of women, but can you tell us a little bit more about it? And then, then I want to ask you a little bit more about, you know, why you started it, you know, what's the reaction to maybe, and what's was driving it. So tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you're, doesn't women is a platform for women by women. So it's a digital media company, like you said, which means we have an online online magazine with new articles and videos every day for women. Uh, we have resources, we have a membership program as well that we just launched this year, that kind of takes it a step further. So there's really a sense of online community amongst other women, really globally, a movement and women being resourced and online events and different, um, tools, uh, opportunities to work together and collaborate, but really the heart behind it was trying to create a space where women, through honest conversations, I think we live in an era of like Instagram worthy, everything, and everything has to be a highlight reel. And there are certain topics still that are like, Hey, we don't talk about those. Or there's certain topics that really only feel for Christian women. Like she has to go outside of the church to be able to engage in those conversations. So we wanted to create a space for both the Christian woman, as well as a non-believing woman and say, Hey, let's be a build a bridge filter here and let's create content that is relevant to every issue in your life. So we'll talk about anything and everything. We'll talk about politics. We'll talk about culture. We'll talk about spirituality and your faith. We'll talk about relationships. We'll talk about career and your finances. We're going to talk about it all. And we're going to be real. We're going to be honest, and we're going to stay true to our values when we talk about those things. But it's through our shared experiences and our ability to actually be heard and listened to one another, that we really have a sense of empowerment together. That's really at the heart of iridescent. And so there's kind of two expressions of that. They're subscribing to our site. There's being able to be a part of our, um, a regular rotation of content that we're putting out there as well as our advocacy work and education and racial injustice and working towards racial equity is a really huge, um, uh, part of our mission as well. So that's something that we educate women on regularly. And then we have our membership program that takes it a step further with some online events and some resources and some opportunities to collaborate with one another.
Speaker 2:And that sounds amazing now. And you co like, so you, you, you started this with a friend of yours.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my best friend actually. So which we started out as friends. We met together at church and had done some work together. And then, um, actually through our partnership over the last couple of years is like, I feel like it was, you know, last year we look at each other, we're like, we became besties just through the nature of building this together. And it's, it's, um, it's such a divine partnership and so grateful for her. She is phenomenal. And, um, and yet you can always tell the difference between us on our podcast because she is the one who has Australian accent. That sounds awesome. And then there's me. So,
Speaker 2:Hey, I love your voice, man. It's great. I did hear that affirmation videos. I'm like, Oh, she's got a really great, that's amazing man. So, okay. So you start this digital media company for women by women. Um, and I love one of the things you did say and talk about is like in platform, like it's a, you've built this thing, not just for your voice. In fact, it almost feels like you're really minimize that in a lot of ways it's to platform other women and give them a space to, to have the conversations that need to be had to, to engage and grow together. And I think it's beautiful, but what, like, what was the impetus, like, what was it, um, even in your own life or maybe culture or our world that like, why start this? Right. Cause I know it's a lot of work, you know what I mean? And it's, uh, and, and this is a number of, it was like 2017 I think is when you guys started.
Speaker 3:Uh, yeah, we started in 2018. We won and uh, yeah, the beginnings of it behind the scenes was 2017. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, I mean, what, what was that like? Y Y yeah,
Speaker 3:Yeah. Wire are the women. I actually never thought I was going to launch a company, um, let alone a digital platform for women that was never on my radar. I've been in full-time ministry since I was 19, actually use pastored for a season in my early twenties and been involved in student ministry in some capacity. So I love it. And you pass it in LA. So I just love, yeah. I love these kinds of conversations. I'm getting to speak to. Um, we were in Korea town and
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just excited.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah. Um,
Speaker 2:I miss LA at times I'm a new Yorker now and love it.
Speaker 3:I'm a true new Yorker, but my heart also part of it is still in LA. Um, so yeah, so I always been in ministry and, um, I do think that I had my own experience, um, with just being a young, single woman for most of my ministry life. I recently got married just, um, uh, about three years ago now. Yeah. And I'm single, uh, Latino woman in ministry and found myself in a lot of spaces where man, I was the only woman in the room amongst my peers in ministry amongst other pastors or other people who are doing similar work as I was doing so that I was very aware of that for a while, the need for a female empowerment, the need for a women supporting women and just the need to create space for women and to advocate for, um, not just, uh, diversity, but inclusion at the table and to have leadership with women within the church. I've seen that because I've experienced it. I felt like I kind of entered into one of those spaces. Like a lot of women talk about where they work in a predominantly male dominated white industry. And I felt that way just by being in ministry and answering the call. And I got, I got used to that space and I figured out how to navigate that space, um, in my twenties and into my thirties. But so that's kind of my background. I think that's important because if, when speaking to women, I think that there's a need within the church to be speaking to women and I've went whatever space I can. I felt like I've done that and mentored women along the way. And just try to be that voice in the seat at the table that, that God had called me to within church life. But I was speaking at, uh, um, a young adults and youth conference. And right before I was getting up to speak, I was standing up off the side of the stage and I had this really unique vantage point. This was in summer. And, um, it was during worship and it just felt like one of those moments where nothing felt forced, it didn't feel like a band that was trying to like rally people to get excited or hype them. There was just this genuine sense. Like people are worshiping Jesus and it just, it was amazing. So I'm, I'm off to the side. I'm just like, thank you, God that I get to be here. And I get to see this. This is incredible. And I really felt like the spirit of God told me to start to look more closely at faces in the crowd and not just the crowd. So I started to look at certain faces. They can't see me, or that would be,
Speaker 2:And worship. God told me to look at, you know, that's very weird, but I'm off to the side and I,
Speaker 3:They can't see the crowd, but I can see them. So I'm looking at these faces and there was a commonality. All of the faces were young women and it was just a defining moment in my life, but it was one of those times that I felt so clearly God speaks to me in this next season of your life. I'm calling you to invest in young women. And this is the people group that you're called to. And if you don't start taking steps forward to actually reach them and empower them, then this is going to be disobedient. Like if you don't do anything with this moment, that's disobedience. So I knew that and I was like, okay, I don't know. I just need to take steps forward. So, um, I remember that evening actually talking to my, then I think we weren't even engaged yet. My boyfriend, who is an entrepreneur businessman, he's in the digital marketing space and he just says it to you straight. Like he still belongs in New York city. Like he's just a very direct and I love that about him. So I told him what happened. And I started just talking out loud and articulating. I was like, I, I don't know what this is gonna be, but I do feel a few things. I know that I want to be in the digital space because that's where women are. I don't want to ask them to come to my thing. I want to reach them where they're at on their phones and they're engaging in content. So I want to enter the space that they're in. I knew that I wanted to create something that, like I mentioned earlier, bridge the gap between conversations that were taking place in the church for women and conversations, taking place in the world and enter that space and make it okay to bring a Christian context into conversations that might feel taboo in church walls and, and reevaluate. Why, why does that even exist? And I wanted to even create a space for somebody who isn't a believer as a woman, but feels very comfortable on our site and at our own pace and our own timing can be exposed to the gospel and hopefully be served in a Christ-like manner in the time that she is a part of iridescent women. And, um, and I do think there's a growing group of women and young women in particular, who just feel like there isn't a place for them in church because of either what they've seen in the church, or because it just has an idea in their head that just is such a stance against what they stand for and their value system, unfortunately, because some of the stereotypes and some of the very real things that the church has been known for in this past decade. So if anything, I want to create a space for those women to be like, Hey, rethink whether or not there's a place for you in church, because there might be and rethink what you think about God. Cause there's actually somebody who sees you, God sees you and, and just give them an opportunity to rethink. And then I also knew I wanted it to be something that was, um, not built on my name. And I, this is no judgment for people who build a ministry on their own personal platform or their name, like no judgment there, if you feel called to do that often. And there's incredible work being done that way, but I felt very strongly that this is actually supposed to be a platform for the many voices of women and not just one. And so in, in a particular guy still to this day, I probably write, I write occasionally on the site, but I'm not the predominant voice on the site. There is no one predominant voice in the conversation. And I quite like that actually. And I love getting to learn from some extraordinary women just sharing their experiences and their insights and their perspectives through the work of iridescent women. So that's really how it began. And then, um, and then kind of more of this, we just kept taking steps forward. And, uh, shortly after, um, that first conversation with Ben, I, uh, I started talking to my pastors and getting their input because I trust them deeply and love them. Um, and, um, and there's just so wise and so encouraging and so empowering and releasing, and then, uh, chatted with Alex. And cause I know her passion for serving young women as well. And her background in doing that in Australia and so said, Hey, what do you want to do with this? Like, I don't know if I'm supposed to do this by myself. And she's like, I'm all in, I'm feeling called to this as well. And that's kind of where it started. And then we took just kept taking step forward.
Speaker 2:I love that. And one cool thing that, that I, the sense that I get right as I started looking at your stuff and just kind of, I've been following you for a little while. Um, and, um, it's almost like the friendship that you have with Alex is also kind of like this baseline to go, Hey, this is what other women want or need or at looking for. And so I thought that was a cool aspect of what you do. I w one of the things I did want to ask you though, um, as a father of four girls, you know, and we're, we're raising them as we want them to be strong leaders. Um, and, but, you know, knowing that, you know, especially as a woman, a woman of color, a leader, a leader in the church that you've passed, like all these spaces that you've occupied. I mean, let's, let's talk honest right now. And just kind of, what are some of the things that you just have run into that then you're trying to, uh, provide or, or, I don't know if I want to say correct. Hopefully we're trying to correct it, but that's, you're trying to add to it where you're like, man, I saw this as a deficiency in a church context or Christian context, you know, um, specifically with women, like what, what has been that experience for you? Um, and how has that, how has that continue to shape even what you're doing today? Um, does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. Um, man, I'm more thinking through my head, how do I, how do I make this a somewhat concise answer? Cause there's just so much to unpack here, isn't there, but that's why I love that you're asking this question and that we're willing to go here in this conversation. I do believe that the Holy spirit is refining this church and reform church. And I think this is a really defining moment for the church for us to lean into. And I do think it requires some honest, honest looks and some repentance and supplementing and some unlearning and some new learning. And I think that when it comes to the opportunities that are created for women in ministry and women in leadership in the way that women are empowered in the churches, one of those that we have to, we have to have a reckoning with as the church. And we have to be willing to look at the uncomfortable spaces and be willing to repent where we need to repent as an institution and as the body of Christ. And then we also have to, um, be willing to lament the loss of that and what that really looks like and be able to create a new path forward that is, or to the gospel at work. Because, you know, at the very heart of the gospel, it's that, you know, there is no Jew or Greek. There is no male nor female, and we see Jesus ministry and he just empowered women in such a radical way and had them in every place of leadership that you would think for the culture of that day, that would not be okay. He was willing to defy all of that because what he was creating, what the gospel was a movement of his body and believers and sons and daughters and equality of the cross. And we see that carried on even into the early church. And sadly, we've just taken so many steps backwards and now it's opportunity to re-look at that and go, wait a second. What it, what it actually Christ comes to do. And what does that mean for women in the church? And I think I had the experience of within my own local church, having pastors who were, they created an environment where men and women both were empowered to lead and they were allowed to bring themselves to the table. We, I had a really rare experience in Los Angeles. My church was truly multicultural. It truly had male and female leadership at all levels of the organization. And it just reflected, I think, um, a more holistic look at the body of Christ and certainly reflected Los Angeles, which is diverse. It's also a very segregated city and it was amazing on Sundays and within the church contract context to actually see a greater representation of, um, uh, diversity and action on Sunday than you do in the rest of your city. That's very rare. I don't think that happened. So I had that experience that really set me up for a lot of success and wins and opportunities. I think it was more outside of that context when I would go to pastors, youth, pastors conferences or networking events, or it would just be very subtle things. I think I got used to, for most of my experience as a leader in ministry and church, somebody assuming that I was a pastor's wife or an assistant or a daughter to somebody to be in the room. Um, I also think that people would say things and didn't even realize the way that they landed in the space. There's just no awareness. And I think that those things you just have, I mean, there was times, especially early in my twenties, I was just infuriated by some of the experiences that I had. I remember having, um, a youth pastor who wouldn't talk to me because I was a woman, like literally said to my colleague, I'm not going to get input from her because she's a woman and I would prefer to speak to a man. And I left that room and went to my car and bawled my eyes out more out of anger. I was so furious, but I remember in that moment, the spirit of God really clearly like holding me accountable to the main mission for me and keeping my heart in a good place, because it was like, Hey, if you want to do ministry and succeed in ministry to prove that a woman can do it, go for it, but that's not the mission that I've called Jitsu. I've called you to make disciples. I've called you to the great commission. So if you create this little shadow mission, it's going to lead you down a path of a lot of things in your heart that you don't want. So if you can just keep your mission clear, then I'm going to take care of a lot of this other stuff, and I'm going to make waves for you. And God was so faithful to do that. So I think I always kind of had that to go back to, and I'd get angry or frustrated, or I was very aware of limitations for women and limitations for women of color in ministry. I had to keep coming back to like, Oh, wait a minute, I'm developing a shadow mission. I don't have anything to prove here. That's actually not my role. My role is just to do the assignment that God's called me to, and then he's going to do what he needs to do through that. Um, but I think there's, I think there's a number of things. I think that a lot of the things within it, I think to have a very real conversation about where women are not empowered means you have to actually confront sexism that exists within the church at all levels and how some of it is actually just quite ingrained and it's systemic. And so there's a lot of places where on paper, your theology says that you empower women, but in your practice, that's not the case or there's subtle ways that you say that you are affirming of women, but there's an unspoken cap to what women can do. Um, it was just men, many times we use the theological excuse for why that isn't allowed, but if you really dig deep, it actually isn't based on theology. That's what we say. It's based on, it's actually just based on some unaddressed, um, you know, different, uh, era's and beliefs about what women can and can't do that. Aren't grounded in scripture at all. So I think that, like, I think you just have to be willing to go to those spaces and the slices and make things uncomfortable. Um, and, and just recognize where there are some double standards not to burn it all down, but to go back to this place of repentance and lamenting and choosing a different path forward. And I think that it's really important that we get to that place with this conversation, because it's one thing to have a conversation around why aren't there more spaces for women? What is women empowerment? It's great for us to talk all day about how Jesus empower women, but we are the living expression of Jesus on the planet right now. So what are we doing to then create more opportunities for inclusion at all levels of leadership? How are we framing our conversation for women? What are the expectations? What do we feel like women can do within the church? What do we feel like are conversations that can be had for women? I think even historically a lot of those things have been conflict, like have those conversations at women's events or women's ministry. That's where you can talk about those things, but we're not going to talk about it in other settings. And that's just a mentality that is causing I think, more and more young women to leave the church because they're like, well, this is weird. I feel like I have to be a different version of a woman that doesn't even meet the era that I live in today to be able to find my place in church. It's just easier for being to be me outside of the church, then try to adapt myself to old standards by walking in this church and trying to find my place
Speaker 1:If you like, what you're hearing, keep listening, but also make sure to check out our newest leadership resource, the leadership journey by hitting up our website, uh, UI wwi.org.
Speaker 2:So I think it's felt at so many different levels. Um, and, and I think there's some pastors and I think there's some movements and I think that's her excelling at confronting this stuff and making real changes. I have always benefited from being on local church staff that need not just make space for me to like check a box, but truly had inclusion in mind at every level of leadership. And it's allowed me to be in spaces. I'm so grateful for that. So I know that if that's my experience, absolutely other people's experiences, but I think for every experience, it's like that there's a whole lot of others that I have that are not. And I still go into places that doctrinally say that they allow women to lead at every level and allow women to preach. But I'm still the first female that they've ever had speak on their pulpit and they've been around for hundreds of years. So it may still exist and there's still some spaces that we can move forward in there. So good. So let's just keep it 100. Yeah. When I, when I met you again for the first time and we went to Guatemala, you were the only woman on the trip. Yes. Yeah. And, and I, and I, I remember thinking that and seeing that, and, and I, as, as I, you know, grow and, and leadership and, and, you know, you're looking at national international nonprofits and big churches and all that. I still run into that a lot. It's like boys club. And so I, I run into that and I was really crazy. And I hope you guys are listening to this friends because, um, Amy are in this type of environment. And we just want to give you hope that there's movements out there, that there are leaders just like Nicole and Nicole specifically that are out there to help you to give hope, to say, there's, you know, there's a different way, but Nicole, you said this a couple times, but young women who are looking at the church and they're leaving friends that we have, we have the numbers for that. That's not Nicole's feeling on it. That is 1.2 million young people are leaving the church and it has to do with justice. And it has to do with not being compelled by the life they're seeing, but also have a lot to do with just being shut out. Like if we really care about identity, belonging, and purpose for young people and yet half the population. And we're just like, eh, except for you, um, we'll tell you what, what you can and can't do. And this is the box that we have you in. That just seems detrimental. And, you know, even as you're, you're speaking and Cole, I just think about what a gift you are to the kingdom of God, that one, that God blessed you to have healthy experiences with it, but also get you through the ones that were painful. Right. You know what I mean, through the times in the car and the anger and the like all that. Um, but he's also giving you such a grace to like, um, I said this earlier, but, uh, when we were talking about your spirit is just so like, like calming, like you, it feels like you've just walked this really well. Um, and, and so I'm really like grateful that you're in the space to then pour into and create a platform for women to have the conversations that need to be had. But when it comes back to the institution of the church, what w what needs to change? Like what, what are some things that you would look at and just go, we need to challenge this. So yes, we do need to have conversations, but are there any other spaces within the institution of the church or the larger kind of Christian complex industrial complex, or whatever you know, of, of our world that what are, what are some other areas that we just need to change or challenge?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, I do think we're going to see change, um, at, at the most like local level, that's going to impact women right now. We're talking about individual women. When we really talk about these stats, I think is going to be when, um, local leadership and the churches are willing to make some changes and willing to, you know, um, and, and, and make changes while also being willing to go through the process of repenting and lamenting and learning what needs to be learned, because if you're not willing to do that hard work, it's like, it's, it's, it's the church as a whole, and this is a whole separate conversation, but it's having a moment right now where church leaders have to choose whether or not they're going to educate themselves on racial injustice and how systemic racism is both in and outside of the church so that we can repent so we can limit. So we can learn new things. It's that things that are processed here when it comes to women and the ways that women have been disempowered in church, we have to really, really be able to do some deep work. That's going to make some real change. So you could, you could go, Oh, well, I just, my next hire needs to be a woman or my next hire needs to be okay. Two for one, a woman of color. Like you could do that, but you didn't solve anything. And you actually set that person up for an unfair fight. It's not, we're not trying to have tokenism. We're not trying to have, let's just hit, hit a quota. We're trying to go beyond that and actually go, what do we need to change about our organization and the way that we lead and the way that we empower it and the conversations that we have and the way we disciple that makes space at everyone at every level for women to be at the seat, to be heard, to be a part of decision-making, those things really matter. And that's what I think longterm brings a lot of change when you don't have people in the room to be able to say, Hey, this is a woman's experience. This is a woman's perspective. This is how it's going to fall on them. And then you just make decisions for them. You never really bring change. So you have to have them in the decision-making at the table. And that takes a lot of work to do. And that takes a lot of adjustment. And for some people at some things that that's a huge shift, and you can do that over time. But I do think it's something that is probably one of the most key things, right? And then I think we have to, we have to, to kind of get a little bit more current that we can't with conversations. And I still think sometimes we fall into some outdated, and I just think it's generally generationally outdated ways of talking to women. So we ended up leaving a woman with this unspoken, like, Hey, if you're going to succeed as a Christian woman, then these are the qualities you have. This is the personality. It's nice, it's quiet, it's sweet, it's submissive. This is you, you know, you're, you're silent more than you're talking. You know, you don't want to be too assertive. And, um, you're going to have kids and probably stay at home. And your, and none of that is bad if women actually that's who they are and that's who they're created to be. And that's the box that they fit in. Good for you woman done Navy, but there's plenty of women in our world that don't fit those boxes. So we have to create examples in our teaching. We have to create opportunities and the way we disciple that assumed women are going to be single. And that's great that women are going to wait to get married later in life, that women are going to be entrepreneurs, that women are going to be leaders in the workplace, that women are gonna be leaders in their community, that, that women are going to have different seats in society, and that they have a lot to bring to the table. And so you're going to start to have those conversations as well. And you're going to bring that into the way that you approach conversations with women. And then I think that if you have more women, and if you have more, if you have more decision making at that level where women are invited to speak to the table at the table and be heard and be part of decision making processes, that's going to be a natural byproduct over time. You're going to get better at speaking to where women really are at. Um, so I do think that's, in some ways, a by-product of your willingness to do the hard work and change culturally, it needs to be changed so that there is a more inclusive environment in decision-making and in leadership. Um, and then I think there's just something to that. Also, there's another piece of it that sometimes articulate, but one of the, one of the real benefits I think of having the right people at the table that represent the people that you're reaching and making decisions is that you now have not just a better understanding of the spheres that they're in, but you have an understanding of their humanity. You have an empathy for what they're going through in a different way. And so then you are able to address with truth, as well as love some really hot topics and some things that seem very uncomfortable to talk about, but that affect women, but you're doing it from a place of compassion. And I think that that's, he, and we lose that sometimes. You know, if you look at stats, um, when it comes to sexual assault and surviving, rape, and surviving sexual abuse, you know, there are a significant amount of women in every church right now. That's part of their story. And if you have women at the table helping you make decisions and helping you craft the way that you approach reaching a loss and making disciples, then you're going to have a level of compassion. When you speak to those places that maybe we'll get nests. If a woman's not at the table, the same is true for issues like abortion. That show that a lot of women have had abortions. And I'm not saying that we need to change our belief in life and how we, how we value that and how we, but we change the conversation. And the way that we approach the conversation, when we know that, you know, there's a number of women in here that that is their story. And if we say, if we talk about this the right way, and we discipled the right way, then they feel they can be open about their story and find healing and find hope they have a space. That's what Jesus would do for that woman. So we're going to do that. But if we don't right, if we approach it differently than that woman feels silent, she feels shamed. She feels like he can't bring all associates to the table because she is, she's going to be seen differently. She's going to be ostracized. So that's how I think ultimately all of these different, being able to have the right people and the voices in decision-making and being able to make sure that's inclusive and that has been at the table together. Then you're going to be able to not just have a deeper relevance for the women in there. So they feel like there's a space for them, but a deeper love and understanding and empathy so that not only they speak for them, but they actually feel like I'm actually included. I'm seen, I'm heard and I'm loved in this space and it's not what we're supposed to do, you know, in the body of Christ.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean, part of it, I love all that part of it, too friends, if you're listening also this gift that we're missing out men, like you were missing out on depth and growth with God because of a different perspective because of the leaders that God has brought to us, and we're not receiving that, right. I mean, it's like, do you want to grow deeper with God? Yeah, I do. Well, then you have, you have such gifts around you and among you, that can grow you in your compassion and your understanding of God we're all made in his image. You want to know that image from one, from one part of it. No, I want to know God in the deepest way I can. And, and so I think opening that up as beautiful, a couple of things you said, I thought were amazing. One, I feel like, Hey, let's, let's just speak to the men that are listening to this. Hey, you, you know, too, we really have to, um, press in. We've got to learn. We got to ask the hard questions, repents, lament. Um, those are a couple of things that you said, Nicole. I think, um, the other practical thing, if you're a man listening to this and you're a leader, um, that you're inviting women or that into decision-making, that that's, you're receiving all the gifts that it is there. Um, especially in, I love you brought this up a couple of times and I love it because I think one of the best spiritual things you could do is confront your own hypocrisy. So you've said it a couple of times when it's like, look, we say, we believe this, this is our theological stance, but w we don't practice practice, practice that there's no like Praxis to that. There's no actual, right. So, so leaders, if, you know, you gotta look at your systems, you gotta look at your language. Um, you gotta, you gotta have the hard questions. Hey, do you ever feel minimized in our meetings? You know what I mean? Or do you feel heard? How, how can I be a better leader to you? And that works for whether it's, uh, someone different than you, if there is a gender or, or ethnicity or whatever, and they have so many different theological stance, maybe they're coming from different places. I think those are really huge. Um, so men like listen up because this is really important. I think we are missing out as a larger institution on a lot of wonderful thing that God's up to, but I wouldn't want to ask you though, to Nicole, especially as, as we kind of wrap up to for the women that are listening, all the sisters that are, that are listening right now, what are some, what are some like real practical ways that you have not only like survived the institution that things that you have to deal with, but have moved into thriving as a leader?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really great question. Um, I, I do think mentorship is really powerful and I think having the right people around you, I, I so much of, I think success in life, doesn't come down to talent. It comes down to community and who you choose to have around you. So I would make sure that you're as much as possible, um, building those mentorship relationships. And maybe that's within your, like your context. It's very local for you. For me. I had some mentors in my world, in my, in my local church, but maybe for you, you have to go a little bit further and search that out, you know, um, maybe you have to help create an environment like that because it doesn't exist. And I would encourage you then to be the pioneer that, that creates that environment where at least there's peer to peer mentorship, or there's some sort of support. I know I just, um, one of the, one of a young woman that I mentor who's in the UK and she's been pastoring, she recently started, uh, like zoom twice a month, get together with women in ministry who are in similar areas of leadership as she is. And she's like, I don't know how many people are going to show up for this, but I feel like I need it. And I think it would be great. And they're like max out RA in terms of how many people it's become a really massive network so quickly and the UK, um, because people like we need this, we don't have this either and we're yearning for it. So maybe it's exists for you already, maybe CCP to find that maybe you have to create that and foster that for you and other women. But please do that. I think that's really, really key. And then I think being a student and staying really humble is important. I think one of the ways that we get to be different than the world when it comes to a part of this reclamation work with, especially with women in ministry, that, that I feel like the church is being called to is that we don't have to be motivated by bitterness or anger or pride, but we can be motivated by just the sincerity to see the gospel in action. And I think if we can keep our hearts in those places is going to be really, really key. So stay humble, stay learning. And I think I've always seen me being in leadership when maybe other, you know, I was the odd woman out. I've kind of seen that as a really, really cool opportunity to learn a whole lot. So how do I learn the people that I'm called to lead and get to know them as individuals and how do I get to sharpen the gifts that I've been given? So I can really Excel in this role. Like, I've always seen that almost if you feel a little bit like an underdog turn spaces, um, I kind of see that as its own advantage, if you're willing to have that perspective, I think it keeps you very humble. I think it's really hungry. I think it keeps you very dependent on the leading of the Holy spirit and also committed to your own personal growth. So I would encourage women to lean into that where you feel that, like see that as an opportunity for the spiritual growth and personal growth that God wants to take you on that journey and, and commit yourself to it. Um, and, and I think, I think, I think that also, if I could just, it's more of an encouragement as like, Hey, stick it out, man. If you feel like you're having a rough, you know, like, is there a place for me in the church? Like, can I actually cause my call of God here, or maybe you're just really, really, really frustrated or disappointed or hurt by the lack of urgency that this is for some people in the body of Christ or just the progress that's being made might feel slower than you really, really want to see happen. I get it. But I think, I think we need to stay at our posts and do what God's called us to do. And I think if more women are willing to go, okay, fine. I wish it would have already been smoother sailing for me, but let me pioneer and let me do the hard stuff so that the next generation of women don't have the same thing so that they can go further than I can. I think that's a massive level of success in the kingdom of God. And so I would encourage you to have that perspective. It's thinking about the generations and not just the weight of what you carry right now, or the frustrations that you're feeling. I think if you can have that eternal perspective, you can have that generational perspective. Then I really believe that God will use your faithfulness, uh, to, uh, to make a ripple impact in ways that maybe you can see in ways you can't. I don't know how many young women I still talk to. And then actually when I preach at different spaces that go, Oh, you're the first woman I've ever seen do this. And they're in church that theologically beliefs and empowering women, but don't practice it. So to me, when I, when I hear that it's a reminder of, Oh, that's why I do what I do. That's part of what it is, is so that I can create space for men and to dream about the future differently than what they're seeing in the present. The state of course, friends nearly do stay the course. I know it's hard, but if you're feeling that right now, just feeling that discouragement, I encourage you. Like your faithfulness actually matters in the kingdom of God,
Speaker 2:Man. I love that guys, if you're listening, uh, that was a word for somebody. Um, well, for all of you, whoever, whenever you're listening to this, like that, that just felt like so beautifully powerful and true spill. Like, so I know, I know Nicole, like, cause I talked to leaders all the time that are so they're like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. Uh, I talked to leaders that are like, I'm out talk to young people that I'm like, Nope, I'm just so, um, man, I just, I just felt that and since that, so thank you for that, that blessing. Last question, because you talked about it, um, we'd love just to hear what, what do you see as the future for, for all these young women coming up? What kind of future do you envision for them?
Speaker 3:Um, and I, I envisioned where women get to bring all of who they are to the table and the body of Christ and it not just be accepted or even tolerated what a low bar, but celebrated. And I hope that for every person I really do. I hope that every person is able to see and experience that there's actually a place for them in the body of Christ. And, um, I, and I do believe that God is raising up a generation of women who not only can find their place in the body of Christ and thrive in that place. But because of that, they are massive truth tellers and they are people of justice and compassion. And I see, um, I, I know this, I hate to stereotype here, but I will say that when you, when a woman, when her heart is in something, man, there's something about the way that God has wired women, that they are like mama bears and they will fight whatever fight they need to, to see people love and people protected and people taking care of people served. So I see a generation of women waking up and finding their place and then walking in the sorority and the gifting that they've been given to see justice on the earth and to see the last come home and to see, um, to see a legacy last for generations. And I actually think we'll see it in our lifetime. Like I really do. I don't think that this is a 200 year dream. I think that this is something we can see and we can experience in our lifetime. And, um, and that's why I think partly having such an urgency to it because if I see it in my lifetime on a grand scale like this man, that's my leg of the race in the kingdom of God. That I'm really happy. I got to be a part of,
Speaker 2:I love it, man. Nicole, thank you so much for being on with us. Um, friends, tell them how Cal can they, you know, I was going to make a joke earlier. You're like, you know, this is what they need. I'm like only if there was like a digital media company that created content for women, you know? So tell them, how can they engage with you guys? Like how, what, what does that look like? Where do they go? Yeah, you can head to iridescent women.com, subscribe there, and you can also learn about our membership program and you can join and encourage you to do stuff. There's so many great resources and opportunities there. And then you can follow us on Instagram at iridescent women. Yeah, that's awesome, man. And then what, like, what's your, uh, can people follow you as well? And as more and more exciting? No, you can follow me at Nicole Smithy on Instagram and I have a website, Nicole smithy.com. Um, Instagram is probably the best space that you'll be able to stay in touch with me. I love it. Nicole, thank you so much friends. I hope today was really helpful for you just to reframe it for some of us. We're we're way beyond where with Nicole, we're already living in the future like that, but for some of the years you're still struggling with, or you're in a context where this is still tough. Um, I, one thing when you were talking to Cole, I just want to encourage you men, um, get, get mentors that are women. Now I know there's, we could have a whole thing on the evangelical kind of weird, like single, like, like that whole thing. That's another, that's a whole nother thing, right? But I'm telling you friends, like, like I learned, um, about the Holy spirit from a woman mentor and, and she was, I I've, I've had so much richness poured into me from amazing leaders who are women. And so, uh, if you're thinking about that or maybe you're at that place, I want to encourage you, um, women, men follow Nicole, check out your desperate women, sister, thank you so much, um, for just your time and for your friendship. And we're going to keep on rooting on, um, iridescent women. And so thanks for your time. Thank you. It's not going to be here and have this conversation. Thank you so much. Absolutely. All right, France, we'll see you guys next time on the features here podcast.
Speaker 1:I'll see you later. If you enjoy what you heard today, we don't want to leave you empty handed series, a couple of resources to help you shape the future. Get access to our latest leadership resource by visiting U Y wwi.org and join our email list.