The Future Is Here

EP. 15: Harnessing the Power of Millennials w/ Grant Skeldon

April 14, 2021 Grant Skeldon Season 2 Episode 15
The Future Is Here
EP. 15: Harnessing the Power of Millennials w/ Grant Skeldon
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The Future Is Here
EP. 15: Harnessing the Power of Millennials w/ Grant Skeldon
Apr 14, 2021 Season 2 Episode 15
Grant Skeldon

More than any other generation, Millennials are some of the most misunderstood and misconstrued individuals within the context of human history, yes even as a new generation — Gen Z’s — continue to rise to the forefront as society’s new leaders. Gen Z’s represent a beacon of hope as we slowly emerge from a history-altering pandemic. But millennials are being prematurely put on the backburner as the new “lost generation,” swept aside as lazy and at worst, nihilistic. But they have as much to offer to society and the work of the Kingdom of God than we’ve been led to believe. Grant Skeldon, Next Gen Director at Q Ideas, is an expert on his generation—the Millennial generation. In this episode of The Future Is Here podcast, Skeldon talks to our host Tommy Nixon about harnessing the power of Millennials, while also discussing what each generation needs to do to support the work of the Kingdom in reaching this next generation of leaders coming up.

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Show Notes Transcript

More than any other generation, Millennials are some of the most misunderstood and misconstrued individuals within the context of human history, yes even as a new generation — Gen Z’s — continue to rise to the forefront as society’s new leaders. Gen Z’s represent a beacon of hope as we slowly emerge from a history-altering pandemic. But millennials are being prematurely put on the backburner as the new “lost generation,” swept aside as lazy and at worst, nihilistic. But they have as much to offer to society and the work of the Kingdom of God than we’ve been led to believe. Grant Skeldon, Next Gen Director at Q Ideas, is an expert on his generation—the Millennial generation. In this episode of The Future Is Here podcast, Skeldon talks to our host Tommy Nixon about harnessing the power of Millennials, while also discussing what each generation needs to do to support the work of the Kingdom in reaching this next generation of leaders coming up.

Support the show (https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E12333&id=12)

Speaker 1:

Are you listening? Hey fan , welcome to the features here , podcast. This is for the leaders, the dreamers provocateurs misfits, the frustrated frontline leaders who are charging in the kingdom. If you're tired of reactive church, it's time to build a church we dream of now the future is here. So don't get left behind. Are you listening? Let's get into it.

Speaker 2:

What's a family. And welcome to another episode of the futures here, podcast. I'm your host, Tommy Nixon. I'm also the CEO of urban youth workers Institute. Now, if you've been following our podcast for a little while, you know, we're all about saying the future is here. What do I mean by that? Um, look, and in 2045, the majority in this country becomes minority. Meaning white folks become the minority. So we know that. And we also know from demographics that , um, that world is increasingly young, it's urban, it's multiethnic . And so I really see our movement along with some others are leaders or next generation, you know, ethic urban leaders. This is the future, but what's crazy is, you know, in 2045, when that change happens for those who are 18 and under, that happened in 2020. And so we're already living in the future. That generation, that we're looking at that by the way is leaving , um , by the millions every year, 1.2 million young people are leaving the church every year. It's, that's the reality they're living in. And so this podcast is really just here to, to explore all the different facets of that. And what can we do as kingdom leaders , um, and Christ followers. What can we do to join in on what God's doing in the world to reach this next generation, to see his kingdom advance and to continue to renew the church? So , um, I am here today with a friend of mine , uh, grant Skeldon man, welcome to the podcast brother. I'm excited. You're on. Uh, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Yeah. So I met , uh , grants and I met actually , um , on a trip in Guatemala. Now what's crazy about that. And I was talking to grant about this the other day was that was just, that was only a year ago, right? Yeah . Eight years ago. For real though, I seriously feels like that. It feels like , uh , we were in Guatemala together. We were on a compassion international trip. Um, and , uh, and what's funny about that grant. It's , it's really interesting, dude. You're a dynamic dude. You're an author. You're, you've started all these things. You're um , and I'll let you tell some of the things that you're involved in, but , um, but you were just what I noticed about you brother , as you were just kind of in the cut, you know, like was kinda like just watching and learning. You'd ask really great questions. Um, and then , uh, and then I did some research on you afterwards, man. I found out you're a big deal, bro. I didn't know, man. So , uh, so excited to have you on today, but tell our audience a little bit about, you know, what, what you're involved in and you just made a transition to a new

Speaker 3:

Space. Give it a little background for us. Yeah, yeah. I mean kind of like you said, I guess in the background it's, it's you, you said your Instagram eight, seven, and I I'm the same thing, eight, seven. Uh, and I, I don't know. I'm okay with like other people being, if I'm in a group room , a leader is I don't need a one up and the reader's like, y'all be the leaders . Like I I'm totally content being , uh , I mean I want to have fun, but I don't have to be like getting all that attention. And so , uh, I , I think also similar to yourself, I just, I love creating environments for diverse young leaders. Um, so many of these guys like you're gathering and I'm gathering , um , they just, they need a place where they can take their Cape off . I mean, they're in our difficult environments where they're the missionaries, they're the minority, not even just like literally in a sense of race, but just, there's not a lot of young Christian leaders out there anymore. Um, there's a , it leadership is lonely than being a Christian as a millennial or gen Z. I mean, that's crazy lonely. I mean, you're not getting points for being a Christian leader in the next generation. Uh, you're once used to be a culture that was kind of like our Keller to say this point. So where he said , uh , 20 years ago, culture felt like the church was irrelevant now today, the culture feels like the church is hostile towards them. And so you can get canceled really quick. You can get just, yeah, just isn't helpful to be , uh , to your profile or are you climbing any ladders in the culture by being a very bold , uh, grounded, biblical worldview Christian in the next generation. Um, and so all that to say is what I try to do is disrupt division in the church. I love to recruit unite and develop some of the most diverse dynamic young Christian leaders across the country. I have a special emphasis on Christians that are in culture in the sense of they're not in vocational ministry. Um, I do feel like since so few young people in each generation even go to church , uh , then we do need to kind of switch up our tactic to of course always train pastors, but also we for a while, seminaries have so highly focused on only training pastors that we're not training leaders that are representing Christ in the culture. I mean, as you and I know, I mean, as much as me and you , Tommy are like intentional about , uh , we're not just growing to grow, but growing to reach others and go into hard places. The day-to-day life though , of a person in full-time ministry is we look at our calendar over the next two weeks. It's a lot of meetings with mostly Christians. Um, you gotta work hard in our, in our life to , to get outside of the life of just being around Christians. But for those that are in Hollywood or those that are professional athletes or those who are in the marketplace or artists or whatever, it may be these young Christian leaders that are like one of the girls I'm thinking about. I just connected with recently she's on Broadway. Uh , she's in the show, she's a mean girl, she's one of the top three girls singing and mean girls. Uh, that culture that she's in is not, I mean, it's not, yeah. Being a Christ follower is just not the thing. And so , uh, how sad would it be a beta and would feel like they're true ministers or missionaries, or they're the B team and we're the eights . And we're like, yo Jesus came and could have chose anyone to be. He could have picked sad to see Sarah see scribes. And he chose a lot of people that were not in ministry to be missionaries. And so it's not an either, or it's a both end . I always say the disciples did well, but I mean, eventually he came back one more time to get a guy in ministry and to get Paul and he changed the game. So it's about them, but for this generation, I'm all about how can we find Christians that are already in culture? A lot of people are watching them, following them, seeing them, looking up to them. And so what that practically looks like is over the years, I've done a lot of retreats or trips for high caliber, young Christian leaders , uh , very racially diverse , uh, there's about 450 young leaders that have come to one of these retreats and actually did the metrics recently to see how many people follow these guys online. Those crazy is it was 219 million people follow these 450 young leaders across the country. And most of them are in their twenties. Um, and they are believers . I would say it varies in the strength of their faith, but that's a big part of what I also want to do is bring in these guys that consider themselves Christians and put them around more bold, strong believers to say, Hey, this is how you can better leverage your platform and what God's doing through you. It's it's what first? What is that? First Timothy four 12 says, don't let anyone look down at you because you're young, but set the believers an example. And that's kind of what I'm trying to get to these guys. Hey, set the set, everyone else . An example of this is what it looks like to be a Christian , um, and love Jesus and to change the world,

Speaker 2:

Man. I love that dude. Okay. So let , let's just get into it , man. I had some other intro stuff, but I love everything that you just shared right there. So I'm a, I'm a power structure guy. I'm a , I look at institutions and I I'm very much like, all right , because if we're the same, right on the , any ground scale, like I'm looking at like bottom line, dude, how do you move the needle? Like what I want to see change happen. Let's, let's get to the impact. Let's let's deal with the bull crap. Like just, okay. Y so everything you just described and , and even those 450 that are , that really have a reach of 219 million. That's incredible. Um, and I love that you , you figured that number out cause it's, it's impactful, you know? Well, what would you say? What are some of the structural issues or barriers that stop , um, that stop the engagement with, with that, with, with your generation and , and young people like that and younger people like that. Um, what are some of the barriers on our side, you know, on the church side, on the, on the Christianity institutional side, that stop that, that caused that kind of weird dichotomy, you know what I mean? Where it's like, Oh, well, well, you know, we do ministry over here, but you're, you know, you're, you're on Broadway. So, you know, does that make sense? Like what , what do you see as some of the issues there?

Speaker 3:

Uh , man , it's come a long answer, but I'll say two things. I'll say, I mean , uh, the, my short answer, like I can put it into a sentence. It would probably be , uh, we, so over glorify the gift of teaching and speaking and worship leading and under glorifying . Literally I forgot the thing. Um, maybe event planning too . I put that. I mean, I feel like, you know, if you want us to succeed in the church world, get really good at speaking really good at leading really good at building a new organization and really, really good at hyping people up to come back next week, you don't kill it in the American church. Um, I just don't know if that's what I felt like Jesus was looking for. When I was looking at his assignment was like, let me find the best speakers, leaders, entrepreneurs, hype people to promote an event and get them to come back next week. Uh , but man, just coming out of Dallas, I was just like, I'm in national . Now I work for Q ideas with Gabe lions . But like when I was in Dallas, I always thought, man, Dallas might just be the most, the biggest living proof that big, big gatherings don't change communities. I mean, Dallas is maybe everybody. I felt like it's so ironic. As so many people are coming from out of the country to come to conferences or to see the big churches here. I was not so funny. It's like people are looking at these churches and these conferences is very successful. And I think, I mean, you do the math and eventually you see actually this is like proof that this doesn't work is. Think about it. It's like there are 4,800 churches in Dallas, Texas that's that's enough churches. It would take 72 years for someone to go to each church every Sunday. If they gave like literally every Sunday, they go to a new church in order for them to reach all 4,800 churches and thousand truly visit him and see them take 72 years for them to go to. It's like so many churches and some of those churches are massive. Like huge it's it's Dallas is the only city I've ever been to where I've seen pastures where you, you know, you meet a pastor, Hey pastor, Oh, what do you pastor this church? And eventually the question, Oh, how many people go to your church? And I'm the only city I've ever seen a pastor to say like, Oh , uh, only, only like 2000, like we're kind of a smaller church

Speaker 2:

And parts

Speaker 3:

Of the country. That'd be huge. And so my point is , um, we boost focus so much on the gathering and less on like the scattering. And I think , uh, again, even COVID is another proof that like we put someone Shaun it . And I just think if, for example, Dallas, with all these big churches and all these big gatherings and all these big conferences, if that changed the world, truly what in Dallas is like anti-human trafficking work be at the best in Dallas, wouldn't a racial problems. We'd never have any of those are never be unarmed. People getting shot there, there would never be police officers getting shot. There would never have any type of social economic problems, but unreality, I mean, Dallas has all the same problems sometimes even worse than other cities. Uh, and so to me, I was like, okay, so I don't want to go and chase and put all this work into trying to build a model. That one, I don't even see Jesus doing really. Like, it really hit me hard when I was reading the Bible and I saw Jesus had the 5,000. I was like, this is a successful pastor in Dallas. This is what would give him a Pat on the back is this , they would even introduce Jesus in Dallas says , this is the guy who, he came out to our city. He got 5,000 people to come listen to him preach . Um , that will be his thing. Like he's got 5,000 , uh, but he believes them like the worst bill , like Billy Graham would have got fired. If he did the kind of followup that Jesus, he just chokes the dues and it's like, Hey, I love teaching you guys, but I'm out of here. I'm gonna keep discipling these 12 guys. And I'm like, yo, he , they would have no follow-up Nope . You didn't build a mega church. You didn't start a podcast. He didn't start something new and say, let's at least do the conference. And come back once a year, this day and do this for the next 10 years, they didn't do any of the stuff we would do because, and I even think either we're better leaders than Jesus. Well , you're doing it really wrong. I just, I don't know. And so I started asking myself, so what is it? And I , I really feel like , um, why the most cause-oriented generation in the world right now is not connecting to the most cause oriented organization in the world right now the church is because the most cause oriented organization right now is not taking their cons that serious. Uh, and I think the cause is making disciples. Uh, we, our call to action is far more. Every week is almost , uh , I always joke pastors, why , whenever you announced church next week, you're always like, you got to come back next week. You don't want to miss it. I was like, we always do with our hands. Like, you don't want to miss it. I was like, yo, that you might not think of it this way, but you got one call to action each week. What is it? And basically it's come back next week. But if you go look at nonprofits and you go look at these organizations that young people are leaving the church to join these causes marches, just being a part of something. They're not saying, Hey, just chill and come back next week, let's get off your butt and let's go change the world. People are hurting and they need you. And I just think, man, that's what Jesus was kind of doing. Hey, come and follow me, not come back next week and listen to me speak. And so all that to say this generation with all their unbelievable gifts and talents and influence, I just think they're way more attracted to the world's causes the bed aren't eternal and won't make eternal impact. Then the church, which is I think the right place, it's just got the wrong urgency and the wrong message right now in some way. But , uh , I have hope that it's going to change. I get excited. I'm thankful that the next generation is tired of church being just a gathering and a Sunday attendance in a building

Speaker 2:

You're hearing keep listening, but also make sure to check out our newest leadership resource, the leadership journey by hitting

Speaker 1:

Website, AUI , wwi.org .

Speaker 2:

Oh man. I couldn't have said it better myself, brother. I love, I love hearing you talk because I'm like, I'm all about all that. Now a couple of years ago, 2019 you wrote a book called passion generation. Right. And , and really what it was about was this, this call to discipleship. Right. And that's, that's really what , um , so you know, friends and we'll, we'll say it again at the end, but you know, go check out , um, Grant's book, passion generation. Um, and uh , I watched a little video on it. I haven't read it yet, brother . So full confession man, but I saw the video on it and it is compelling, man. Uh , and I think , um, I think you're right in all of that now, but let , let's talk about specifics on this and practicals. And that's what the book is about really is a , it's a practical guide to this, to the discipleship piece of it. But you know, when we look at the generations a little bit, so, so I kind of look at it like this and please disagree with me pushback , but however, whatever, but it's almost like, okay, boomers kind of , um, that generation and there's lot of great things there. I, you know, I honor and respect, but they built this institution that we now are experiencing and that now all these young people are leaving. Right. So they built that and they maintained it and they're still in and let's be real in some spaces they're still holding onto it really tightly. And then you have , you have my generation I'm at the very end of gen X. Right. And we're kind of like the whatever generation. So coming from a lot of divorce, I was a latchkey kid. I was like, yeah, I got all that. Right. And it's kind of like, okay. And then we figured some things out. And so we're still kind of punk rock, but resilient. But you know, I don't know how much we were like changing the game. It was just kind of like, okay, well, and then you have your generation, so then millennials show up. Right. Um, and, and you, and I love, you said the most cause oriented generation, but, but you guys were a little bit like , uh, like , uh , you're starting to point out all the issues. Like you're like, dude, you know, this isn't really, this isn't really working. And yet you have a generation coming behind you, gen Z. That is, that is very different. It's they're not the same as millennials. They're , they're , they're different. Right. And they bring their own giftings, like just like millennials do and your generation just like gen X and you know, and before us, but what does it look like then? Because then it feels like your generation is in a tough spot. Cause , cause you got to eat what you got handed off to you. Um, in a lot of ways, you know , you described it, but w was pretty weak, man. I mean, and so, and , and not discipleship. Right . So let me

Speaker 3:

Ask you a question on that, because like you said, you get to say handle what we got handed off to . Cause I don't feel like there's still been a general across the kingdom, in the American church, a handoff . I don't think there's

Speaker 2:

Okay . I hear you on that, right ? Yes .

Speaker 3:

No, but I think that's the case. Like that's I want to talk about that as that's, that's setting us back 10 to 15 years, every generation. So I'm curious for you all, do you feel like at, let's say 30 at , so I'm 31 now just turned 31 a couple of weeks ago. Would you say that around that age you got a hand off ? Cause I , I think like you said, I think the boomers are still mostly hanging on X-ers are starting to finally get some power. And as someone in the thirties I'm seeing my generation starts to feel like, okay, I'm finally starting to get naturally without any request a seat at the table. Um, and I'm , and I'm feeling this temptation when I'm like, I bet every generation feels that all their twenties, they got, they got like told, just wait, just wait, just wait. Um, or you're like just do it. And then maybe thirties, maybe for lucky. And I feel like I'm on the front end of most millennials. So instead it usually comes at 40, as you finally started getting a seat at the table and I'm like, Oh finally, I'm going to just ride this out. And technically in this table, I'm the young guy. And so I can ride this for 10 , 15 years . It'd be the young guy table. And it's like only about 50, 60. You're like, okay, we gotta start thinking young, which to them is 40. And I'm like, that's fine. It's just, you know, the guys we're helping train when they're thinking young and who they're reaching its teenage and twenties.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. No, I mean, I think that's such a good question, but then I , I appreciate that because , um, and I think you and I, so personality wise, you and I did the same thing and in a lot of respects, we looked at the landscape and we're like, I'm not with that . I'm going to have, I'm going to have to start my own thing. And I , I did right . I mean, I was like, okay, I could , I could call people out on their hypocrisy all day long and all that, but let me look in word what's my hypocrisy while I go try to live it out. Right. And you saw the issue and you start living that. But I think for a majority of people, you're right, man. Um, when I'm thinking about it, I'm already thinking, how are we building into those 20 somethings because really those who are holding onto power, so boomers, okay. We'll pick on them right now. Um, but boomers w if you ask any of them, Hey, when did you start leaving? But what are they going to say in their twenties? I mean, they, they, a lot of those guys started when they were really young and they started it, you know what I mean? Um, and so I'm like, well, then you got to let go and let these next guys come up. I mean, you guys at your age, I think you should be charging. You know what I mean? And, and so I'm almost wondering, is it my generation gen X, this has got to make the quick handoff and just go look, we just learned from the other thing. And I'm here to just say here, let me tell you all my mistakes. You know what I mean? I mean, I think we, I , I think that's kind of the , the space to go. I think you're absolutely right in that man. So, but, so then, so then I turn around and ask you the same question for millennials. What does that mean for, so if you're a gen X-er, you're at my age, I'm 40, I think I'm just 10 years old and you brothers , so I'm 42 born in 78, super weird. Like I'm on some micro-generation , you know what I mean? Like, I didn't use the internet until I was in college. Like part of that was because of , we had no money, but , um, right. So there's me, but I had video games growing up , uh, you know , um, but what does that mean for millennials and then reaching gen Z? So I , I, you have any thoughts about that? Because that's a real generational thing that we really got to look at and for gen X-ers we got to go, Hey, man, I know you're waiting for that big chance, but maybe we just got to take the L on this or the sacrifice play for sure.

Speaker 3:

Yeah , I do think so. I, I had a story that happened like months before COVID , uh, in November. And , uh, basically , uh, I was speaking at this big, it was the biggest thing I've ever spoken with. If we look at like attendance, it was like 50, 70,000 , uh , mostly young people and , uh , was at , uh , Texas. It was at a stadium like for NASCAR , um , type of big thing. I think it got you muted. Um,

Speaker 2:

Sorry man. I was like, of course it was , of course it wasn't Texas. Yeah .

Speaker 3:

It was like as every other week. And so all that to say , um, I'm supposed to do a 15 minute message, however, three days before they kind of say, Hey, instead of you doing your message, we want to put you, we want to do a panel on the next generation. It's going to be just you and another guy though. So I'm like, all right . I mean, I, I did, I've been prayerfully thinking about this. There's a big opportunity and a huge audience and, but let's do it. I mean , let's do the panel instead. So I'm like, who's the other guy on the panel and I'm 29 , um, at the time. And so he , uh, the guy on the panel is like 19 years old and is a gen Z kid. He's been mobilized in hundreds of kids in high school to go and do overseas missions and all this stuff. And the brilliant strategy it's called, how the life , uh , his name's Jordan Whitmer , it gets like these big YouTubers, online people to like, use our , leverage, our platform to do like these local gatherings, even international or in other countries. And they'll gather like 200, 300 kids and then just get that really well-known famous Christian person to tell their testimony. And then they come in and just preach the gospel lead people to cross is awesome. And so all the funny part was whenever , um, they had to speak. They asked me at first, Hey, tell us about , uh, why is it so important for the next generation? Know Jesus. So naturally I'm talking about millennials, I'm 29 and I'm talking about the millennial knowing Christ. And then they ask him same question. And he kind of says, you know, one thing I do want to say when we say next generation though, is like, when I think a next generation, I do think of gen Z. I'm thinking of like the next, next generation, the true next generation is that . But when most people talk about next generation though , we're talking about millennials, but reality is gen Z is here right now. Like we're even getting into college and all that. Uh , and he said, so I was like, as much as I love the older generations over here and he's kind of pointing to me and he's like, I think we need to start focusing on the next generation gen Z. And I'm just like, yo, this dudes , I ain't trying to old man, me at 29 years old, he's calling me the old band. And I'm just like, yo, this is what I make people feel like all the time. Cause I've seen you do it all over the country where I come in and there'll be like, dude, usually I'm the young guy, but I guess you're now the young guy. And, and I always told myself seeing that happen. Cause I could tell like they were joking, but I could see as like, Oh, you kind of touched your identity being the young guy a little bit. But I always told myself , don't do that too much. Like, and I've heard enough old people say, Hey, you're going to wake up one day and you're not going to be the young guy enough . People said that I'm like, it must be true. Time just keeps going faster and faster and faster. And so all that to say is , um, I was telling myself one don't attach my identity to that. But then two , I thought, well, when I become the old guy, then I'm going to work really, really hard to not forget what it's like to be the young guy. Cause I swear all y'all forgot or something. Cause y'all, it's like, I gotta bring you back. I've seen so many messages where I feel like I got to bring you back to what it felt like when you were trying to reach the next generation, but you didn't have resources. You didn't have the support. No one was open doors for you to , no one was connecting you. No one was , uh , uh, putting their neck on the line for you. And so all that to say, when that kid did that, I was like, all right , this is kind of like the next kid. I'm sure he's one of many that are kind of starting to rise up, but maybe not get too much attention. And I want to shift gears at 30 and be like, okay, the next 30 to 40, how can I start setting you guys up from 20 so that when you get to 30 you're 10 years ahead of where I was. Cause I, but I did feel a temptation of , or yo I'm starting to really get the doors that I always wish would be open and the opportunities I always wish I would have. I feel like around 30 and married now I see a lot of opportunities come that I just didn't. I didn't have before when I was a young single dude. Um, and it really lastly reminded me of David and saw , um, I think that's the best example of like, I always asked myself, what if saw was healthy enough, content enough solid in his identity enough that he never got jealous of David? Like how much could Israel and the kingdom have flourished if Saul and David could have worked together rather than spending years with tension running away, causing Wars, even how much that then would later impact David I'm like how healthy, how much would we literally even today, us as a nation and Christians, I mean today, how much would we have been impacted? Those just saw wasn't or felt like he needed to hold on a little longer, but he's like, yo, we're on the same team. If they give you 10,000 and they gave me a thousand at the end of the day, God's getting all of it like Gill , even I've always thought to myself, like even the gym , the band, the casting crowns. I never liked Christian music when I was a non-believer my mom would force it on the us. But the reason I called that is like, even if you're the best of the Christians, you get the most attention, you get the Billy Graham kind of name. If you will, and legacy, you got to cast that ground before God. So it's his like obviously my hope is, and I want to encourage, and I , I really think this is on us as Xers and millennials is , I've always told X-ers y'all are like the bridge generation because you guys can connect to millennials. Um , always thought y'all could connect to me and my generation a lot of ways, but you'd have the trust of the older generation, but I respect you guys and you guys can get me to respect boomers more, but you also can get boomers to just trust and believe in gamble on young people. And I kind of think millennials and Xers could do that together because I do think boomers still have the most resources, the most like connections, the most power in a lot of ways and authority , um , and older extras are starting to as well. And then I think us millennials, although we're not just like gen Z, I think millennials are more like gen Z than they are like boomers or extras . And so my hope is instead of millennials riding out their thirties and even their forties, it's just like, yo, who cares? Let's get them what we wish we had . Uh, and , and luckily, lastly, I'll finish. It doesn't seem like people are going to be making fun of gen Z as much as they made fun of millennials. Like millennials really was . I mean that ,

Speaker 2:

Yeah, dude, absolutely. No . I mean, I think man, all that's so good, bro. I love your story. What was his name? His name was Jordan. Right? Right. That, that , that kid was on there with you man. And I, I love that man. And that's really, for us, it's like this , uh , we're trying to, our tagline, you iwi is like new leadership for a new world because really I , I look at, I feel like the model of leadership that we've been given was I , what I call the great man syndrome just, and it's built in the institutions, what you described. Like it's just about getting you to the next thing. Like how big of a crowd can I get and , and can I keep this machine going right. Just bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. And I've always struggled with that too. I was like, I don't really see Jesus in a lot of that. I, I struggled with a lot of that. And so, and then if you had a great man that, you know, continue to do great things, then we gave them a lot of concessions to act in a lot of ridiculous ways and which wasn't healthy for them. Wasn't healthy for their team or their church. And eventually when they win or if they fell, wasn't healthy for the kingdom, it D evangelize the church. Right? So my, for me, leadership is like, you're helping people who they are created to be. So one of the things that I see with gen Z and I wonder what your thought is on this for millennials specifically. And you did talk a little bit about with gen X. So those who are in my generation, how can we join in better on what God's up to in the generations, but I know what gen Z, they want mentors, we're running around going, Oh man, how are we going to disciple these kids? And I'm going, you know, they're asking to be mentors , like help me figure out this life because they've kind of been born into, they kind of got the shorthand , bro, right? Like born around the great recession, like coming into, going through a pandemic, right. When they're becoming adults , um, the, the political arena is insane, right? The space that our country's in , like this is when they're growing up and they're going, like, I need, how am I supposed to be an adult in this? And from the research, it looks like they're putting a, if they can make money and get the right work, that some of the research points to that. And I just want to go that you can go for them , man, but that's not going to fulfill you because I know what God has for you. Right. I mean the gospel. So I mean, what's, what's, you know, break it down for me, are your thoughts on, so in that sense, what should gen X be doing? What should you and your, your generation doing so that we can best support gen Z coming up? What , I mean, any thoughts on that? I know that's a big question, but yeah ,

Speaker 3:

I mean, for me, it's a , I mean, I've shifted gears a lot towards gen Z. I mean, I've always kind , uh , of those 450 young leaders in the network, I would say 80% of them, maybe even more have always been millennials, they'll be at 20 something now, early 30 somethings. But now, I mean, that's, that's high priority. As much as I , uh, have a high priority of minority leaders and diverse leaders. I'm like gen Z leaders, gen Z diverse leaders, which luckily is kind of the future, like you've already mentioned. And so they are . Um, and so yeah, I would say , uh, for me, it's I want to help , uh , find them when they're young and then start just bringing them. I guess I'll share a story of a guy. Uh , cause he's most my most recent dude, but there's a kid named Colin. LeBron , uh, if you have a kid who's on Tik TOK, I would tell you to follow him on Tik TOK, calling the bras, L a B R O S S E. Uh , he was a kid half Mexican, half white , uh, similar to myself , uh, actually even half Mexican, half Irish and very semi-skilled because I'm half Mexican, half South African. So it's like two groups such as, what are you supposed to be like when you're Irish and next kid or South African to Mexican . So I would just kind of connected. Uh, his story is similar to me every now and then only , actually only twice in my life, him being one of them. It doesn't matter . First time I met him , I said, Hey, I don't know about you, but like , um , I've got a lot of belief in you and I, I feel like we can hang out a lot, but I'd like to take you under my, if you're open to, I know that's like asking you out on the first time I meet you in a way. But if you feel that too, like, I like to help you because the kid has half a million young people, mostly gen Z people following him on Tik TOK. And all he does is preach about Jesus. That's his thing. He's like young , like millennials where I feel like extras , especially in boomers. I feel like kind of extra is actually when they approach the church, they kind of made it a little more comfortable, maybe older extras. I feel like millennials try to make it more cool honestly, and made it relevant. Like let's make it not comfortable, but let's change the world and make church cool. But like those next generation of very revivalist old school soul kind of like, we just got to get them say , you're going to reach this generation. Um, and so when I say that in social media, I mean, it's all about Jesus. You look at millennial Christian. It's like, here's a little bit of cool in my profile and my pictures. And here's a little bit of Jesus them. It's just straight Jesus, what I'm seeing a lot of . But so all that to say, I was like, yo, I want to take you under my wing a year. He's getting invited all , several places in the country. And I, cause it's tech talks and I asked him, I was like, how many times though, have you ever preached over? Let's just say 20 minutes. Um, even Tommy, you know, like the first time you ever speak and it's like even five minutes, Whoa , what will I say? Five minutes. And now we're like, man, I wish I had 50 minutes. All that to say, he's like, Oh, I've only preached over 20 minutes. Probably like twice. And he's traveling the country already because of his online influence. And I said, well, unless you're going to do, I know take talks or 60 seconds, unless you're going to do like 20 of your best tech talks and was like 20 of those Ted talks. I want to teach you like how to do an art. But also my biggest thing, bro , is the tactics on how to preach that . So easy in light of how to find your voice. I was like, that's what takes a long time because you could spend years. I see it all the time with young speakers trying to sound like someone they're not their favorite pastor and it just doesn't work for them. And then they got to become secure in their identity. So I just want to help you find you. Um, and then also to preach for the right reasons, because if you're doing a passion alone, like just how to go in with a pure heart, give it to God and just use , got to show up in big ways. So , uh, anyway, just as I've taken him under my wing, I'm introducing them to anyone. I know that I think you should know. Uh, and I'm not thinking, Oh, what if I introduce this kid? Who's the new young kid to this person then they might not want to help me. Cause I think that scarcity mindset also helps hurts a lot of us from introducing and sharing our relationships. Even sometimes our donors where it's like, we don't truly believe God has cattle on a thousand Hills. So , uh, one of my, probably my biggest donors really did like them. I mean so much so that I've been trying to get them to move to Nashville, which she literally just did five days ago. So I was like, yo, if you were here, I could truly like pour into you regularly. And I think that's a better city than Minneapolis personally, for you to launch a lot of the stuff that you're trying to do. Cause he's in music and he's doing the social media. And so one of my donors, as he got to know him just loved . He never again, never asked for money. And he said, I want to pay for you to move down there. I'll pay four months of rent. So you can be with grant. You can be with que , um , down there and yeah, let's just, let's launch what you're doing. I want you to get this to as many people as possible. And now, and then lastly, I , I spoke at a big conference. I was shocked. It was a thousand plus people in Dallas and live at this event. That was the biggest conference I've been in during COVID. I was like, yo, I did not think this many people would still show up, but I brought them first time. I brought him to a event with me and they want , I'm like, Hey, we're going to have you speak to you're going to come up and pray us out at the end. Or we did a Q and a for 30 minutes, twice in a row. I was like, well , going to , you're going to answer questions for Jay as gen Z. And he was good. I , there was every now and then he did some other things that was really good, but most of the time it was just okay, but I know he'll get better. Like we we've just seen that process. But I think my answer would be like, find at least one gen Z leader and just go all in of like, how can I give him everything I wish someone gave to me and not the wisdom, the relationships, the, the advice, the calling out. I mean, we talked about like go when it comes to accountability , um, addiction and pornography is going to be huge for that generation. And I was like, yo, I we're going to do this together. Like I wanna , I want you to be online. Uh , when it comes to covenant eyes, I want you to, I want to be on yours, but like let's, we're just, I'm just calling them higher. I just think all of that. And lastly, I do think if I could go back on my book, one thing I think I've missed is , uh, I think like emotional health is going to be huge for the next generation. I think if P zero could become best friends with gen Z and , and even young millennials that will really save a lot of that. You use the word de evangelization, you , this might just be potentially, if we don't decide when this next generation we're seeing a lot of leaders fall out of ministry, out of the boomer generation , that's like grounded in the word, like steady. This generation barely knows it. And they go out and get a hundred thousand followers and they're preaching barely what they kind of know in the world and getting huge book deals . We could see one of the worst group of Christians fall out of ministry just because they're not as rooted and grounded because again, so much platform. So soon you can't microwave the character to sustain that. Um, and so it's crucial that they, they do have these guys discipling them. I think I told you all the influence they have. I think people would be shocked on much. Uh, they are just like any other youth. If you went to a youth group, there's not much difference from these guys that have unbelievable online influence, they still need to be poured into just like anyone else in college or in high school. And so , um, I would say, yeah, just learning the emotional health that steadiness , uh , lastly I would say like, because it's so easy to find passionate young people, so , so easy, but I say often it , but it's very hard to find prayerful young people. It's hard to find ones that Saba , it's hard to find ones that they really celebrate , uh, prayer disciplines, all those types of things. And um, yeah, I just think that's going to be problematic when we got a very like Gary V hustle grind and Christian culture mixture. Um , and it's only until you hit that burnout, which is, I think getting younger and younger every year that you're like, actually I gotta be healthy myself cause I can't pour out. What has an important

Speaker 2:

Man? I do . I find , um, yeah, thanks for that. What was so compelling about what you just shared that I had never thought of? So , um, I just want to pull that back out. Um, it's this idea that if we don't reach even the ones that are on fire for Jesus, you know, like if we don't guide them, mentor them, disciple them, we could have an even bigger fallout than we're experiencing right now because, and I never, you know, honestly, I never thought about that and that's, that's so compelling to me. I mean, this is my business, right? This is what we do. We, I'm here to pour into your generation so that your generation reaches gen Z with the gospel and that, and that by 2045, it's that generation that's running all the things, you know what I mean? They're, they're running the institutions, they're in government, they're running the businesses, they're in entertainment, like, like that. And I see a huge opportunity for revolution there. Right. I'm like, Oh, this could be so great, but I think that's so , um, man, that is so interesting because I think the problem right now that I see with all of these pastors, like falling is it's an institutional problem. You know, I go back to power structure. I it's easy to point and go, Oh, well that guy, you know, he's morally, I'm like, yeah, but it's a system that continues to pump out those, those same leaders. Like they, yes, they should own it themselves. They made choices. That's true. But can we talk about the system that , that supported that and that cheered them on into that toxicity and then, and then this next generation is looking and going, you want, this is what you want me to follow. This is no, I won't do it. So I find that really, really interesting man. Okay. So dude wrapping up, bro. Um, and you gave some, some great stuff, man. So appreciate , uh, you and getting to know you more on this man. This is great. What , uh, okay. Front me a little bit, bro. What do I need to be doing? Right. My generation of leaders. So, so me and those ahead of me, dude, what, what do I need to be doing or aware of to best , um, kind of pour into to you, you, your generation , um, what, what, what's our responsibility right now? Where do we need to step up?

Speaker 3:

Uh, this might be a random answer and I'll say this every time I get asked this question because I do decently often, but I do think , uh , one of the most powerful things, someone can do it that no one usually says, and we may not realize the power that it can have is I , uh, us as a general , like each generation needs to get better at calling out their , their own generation. Uh, I, I often tell people, like, I think every church should watch , uh, I'm very influenced by the remember the Titans or, or honestly , uh, I often I'm on so many race panels over the last five years with all the racial and it's always, usually a black guy and an Asian guy. I always get to be the Mexican guy. And then there's some like , uh, I guy, black guy, Asian guy and Latino die , maybe a girl, maybe possibly . And so with that, I feel like , um, I'm always like, yo, these panels are great, but this isn't truly how you reconcile. Like someone talking about building relationships. Uh , I never want to do panels to build my friendships. I that's like, you never see a marriage start and they'll be like, okay, how are we going to build this relationship? Let's go. And it's like, what a pastoral thinking to think that that's what we should do to fix race relations. Like , yeah , I want to go on a retreat. That's why so many of the people in that Guatemala trip , proposed friends, we were all mostly strangers, but there's a, there's a bond that comes out of going somewhere for several days together. You can go to another country. It truly is something about it. Like that goal of a mission trip is to impact people in another country. But without a doubt, like, I don't think ever in history, some people didn't come back really close friends and that's 0% of the goal. Not even kind of the goal, not even like any there's no strategy put into, let's make sure these guys are best friends at the end of this. It just happens. Like it's something about when you slow down, get out of your very, very busy life . You're no longer the leader. You don't really got good self-service and you don't have control of the schedule. You just gotta, you gotta be you like all these leaders that are used to being the leader, just get to have fun. And, and someone else gets to be the leader. It's like the funnest thing ever. You just get to have fun and go to a place where no, you guys are actually the bomb . Part of it is just, you guys are only thing similar everyone else in Guatemala, it was Guatemalan except for us. But even the black guys, like I think it was like Jared Lawson , like , uh, I think it was Jared. Right. Okay. So Jared , um , I mean we, in a way have more similar to Jared than we do with the Guatemalans, even though we're different because like we're at least American and we, we know American life, one of the Guatemalan . So my point is , um, I started looking at , uh, race case relations and I felt like it sounded very similar to the , how do we fix race relations too ? How do we fix generational relations is like one don't get, don't get Oh, white people to create things for minorities or, Hey, don't get only older people to create things for next generation. Uh , have them in the room. Like almost everything when helping hurts, I would apply to the next generation is like, don't come in as the savior and think, Hey, we're just going to create this for you. And then don't assume what they need. Talk to them and out what they actually mean . Like all these things apply to any new group of people that some of these principles of in . But lastly, when I looked at, remember the Titans, I was like, that's the best movie of two races. You know, there's, there's a lot of racial reconciliation movies, the blind side or road. Uh, we've talked about so many, but that's the one where there's so much tension between the black people and the white people. It's not like they tried to make act like it. Wasn't there like hidden figures where they try to work together. But the elephant in the room finally comes out. It's like they won white players. Like I'm not working for this black coach . And like I'm quitting the team if he's coming and the black people are like, we don't want to be with you anyway, go ahead. There's this. Even the parents are like, we hate, y'all like we're throwing bricks through the wall, the white coaches. I mean, parents are like, I don't want them to play for a black guy. And so very public division. My point is, this is like, if something happens when he takes him on a retreat and gets them to really build relationships together. Um, and , uh , and lastly, something he does, I think that we don't notice is it was a very powerful moment in the movie. The thing that shifted the retreat was not just the retreat, but it was when the white player with partier , uh, who's the most influential among the white people , uh , connects better with the black guy. Who's the most Julius, who's the most influential black people. And [inaudible] eventually calls out the white players and says, you guys are not blocking for these, for the , for the black players. And if you don't stop, I'm kicking off the team. And there's a scene where like the black guys who noticed that the white guy calls out the other white guys and is like, okay, we're going to start to really play then . And then the black guy starts calling out the black players from like not working better to protect and work with the white guys. And it was like, there's some, I could call out older generations all day and I could do it. Well, I could do a biblically. I could do it where every single point I make is right. But it's still gonna sound a little bit like I'm nagging. And the same thing, older generations can call out young people all day biblically for all the right points. But it's still going to sound like they're kind of nagging, but when an older guy calls out other older guys, or at least when one generation calls that third generation to the young people, sorry , being like, yo I'll follow that guy because they just put their neck on the line for me. And I try to do that for my guys where I'm like, yo young people , all you're doing is hanging out with young people. You are the dumbest young person I've ever met. Like get around older generation, bro. Like you're dumb, but you think you're going to find a job. Can't find a job. Let me get none of your friends have jobs, either get around some people like you want to know how to do marriage as well. Let me get, so you're getting advice from your single friends. Like , dude , that's do the math here. And so I'm going to follow them out. And I think , uh , the more I've seen them do that, the more I've seen young people be like, okay, I'm in, he's gonna , he's got our back. He'll even call out his own for that. And I think that's a powerful thing to do to win over the next generation and create a healthier culture in whatever group you're a part of.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, no doubt, man. I , I feel that dude. I mean, one of the things too, that I've just in our leadership principle is, you know, own your mistakes and say, sorry, you know, soon. And , and a lot of times, you know , I I've even been doing, you know, you get, you get teaching things here and there. They want you to make a video or whatever. Um, and a lot of times there are for this next generation coming up, right. It's either millennials or gen Z that I'm speaking for last couple of times. I just, I start the whole thing out with an apology because I just want to go look , let's just call it out right now. I'm sorry. Like we, so we have, and I own it too, even though sometimes I'm going to be like, Oh, that really wasn't me. But you know what I mean? Like you gotta be like, look, man, we , um, and I love what you said earlier when I'm like, Hey man, we handed you off some lamb and you're like, Oh, did you hand it off? Cause I didn't, I'm still waiting for them to receive that, bro. You know what I mean? So, but definitely there's that man. And I think , um, that's helpful, man. And I think, you know, honestly, you, you said it that gen X, you know, so if you're listening to this podcast and you're around my age, I'm 42, you know, a little bit younger, a little bit older, you know, we really, I, I like, and I, I call myself a bridge person. And so, and you said, Hey, you guys are kind of like a bridge generation. I think we're really are man. And uh, you know, we're punk rock, hip hop enough , uh, to , to be like, all right , man, let's, let's really pour into and , and get, get these younger cats, right? Um, by learning from our mistakes or, or the things that are, you know, here's what we've learned from this. Um, and really look at it , um, as our mandate and call because we're kingdom people towards the mentoring and the discipleship of this next generation man. And so friends of your listening to this man, you gotta give away power. Uh , you gotta, you gotta make room, you gotta give up your seat. You know what I mean? You gotta, you gotta build whatever you're, you're building and, or leading and running and you gotta work. You know, we always tell him like, yo , work yourself out of job. Well, no, you got to actually do it. And , and that's scary. Um, especially when you got the mortgage and you got the kids and you got the, you know, all that kind of stuff, but isn't that the radical way of Jesus. And, and basically we've seen with status quo gets us a mess of a country. Um, non-leadership from our government officials, right? Left you name it. It's been insane to watch the, the ridiculousness of these men, mostly men and women , um, that that just will refuse to lead they're selfish. Um, and we have this opportunity to own that and do it differently, man. And so grant, man, thanks so much too for your time, brother. Thanks for jumping on bro. Okay . How can people, how can people follow you? How can they , um , catch what you're doing? Work in the, get your book

Speaker 3:

Just yeah, yeah. Let us know. Uh, the book is on Amazon Scott , the passion generation seemingly reckless, definitely disruptive, but far from hopeless millennials. Yeah, passionate generation. And then , uh, for me, I mean, great thing about my dad being a South African, I guess, and not many years , I've just never in my entire life, seen my last name before anywhere else. And so I'm the only grant still than I I know of and not Google and try to find others . So hopefully there are some out there, but uh, everything I have is grand skeleton grant , skeleton.com, ad grants , skeleton , whatever it may be slash Grantsville still . Then if it's a online platform, it's just my name.

Speaker 2:

That's not a bad deal right there . Wrong . God has shined on you, especially in this age. So do that as awesome, man. Well, Hey , uh , friends, thanks so much for joining us today. Grant, thank you again, brother was great to get to know you a little bit better and uh , love everything you're doing. We're actually , um, uh, we're so much more line than I even realized. So , um, you probably are already on that. I just I'm slow. So I'll again, I'll model. I'm sorry. You know what I mean? I just didn't know yet, man. So , um, but man, big fan and want to continue to , to support you in what you're doing. I hope we can partner in different ways , um, in the future, but friends , thanks for joining us on another episode of the features here podcast . We hope to see you guys next time.

Speaker 1:

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